Super vrs Uber

[Bruno]

I find it humorous that there is at least one new thread a week trying to get the 109K to fly at just one more inch of manifold pressure and then maybe it will be as uber as it is supposed to be. Or maybe if it just rolled a little better, or dived a little better.

Those threads are started by the same person, one who doesn't even play AH. Not everything discussed in this section of the forum directly relates to how a plane is or should be modeled in a game.

Either way those threads are a whole different line of discussion then wanting planes that saw no combat at all in WW2 included in AH.

The 109 was at it's end in 1943 let alone 1945.

Maybe you should educate yourself a bit.


fyi...

What's a 'frolines' (honestly)?

[OttoJ]

Originally posted by F4UDOA
You might as well call this game "Desperate Frolines" with all of the week attempts to bleed a little more performnce out of outdated airplanes. The 109 was at it's end in 1943 let alone 1945.

Give it rest already:cry

Yes it must be embarrassing that the "outdated" 109 could outperform the F4U in every respect except fuel endurance. No wonder you're desperately trying to get post-war planes included in the game.

[F4UDOA]

Otto,

Really? Take a 1943 F4U-1 and a 1943 109G and see if you can outrun it? Now try turning or diving.

You can climb but that is it.

I am not trying to get any postwar F4U's introduced into AH. There is no need, the entire game of Aces High Almost shut down because a simple F4U-1 from 1943 with 4 20mil cannons brought the MA to it's knees until it had to be perked.


Bruno,

I have been playing this game since the Beta in 1999. You should take some time to educate yourself.

[Squire]

Tempest V
Spit XIV
F4U-4
P-47N
P-51D
La-7

I think the allies have their share of good late war fighters (almost all perked). As for the Meteor F.III, it would be fun to fly them vs the Me 262, but there are so many other planes AH needs 1st.  

Personally I think the Me163 was a mistake to add, I would have put in an axis prop bomber or something to fill out the Russian plane set before adding a rocket fighter?, but I guess it has sex appeal, and that sells subscriptions. Just my 2 cents.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Bruno
The top Allied 'Ace' flew P-39s...

The Top Allied ace flew Lavochkin's........... the 2nd highest Allied Ace flew P-39's

[Karnak]

The F4U was, in my opinion, the best all round fighter to see active service in WWII.  Doesn't mean it is my favorite fighter, but it was dang good.

The Bf109 did not age particularly gracefully.  Well trained and experienced pilots could still use it to tremendous success, but for new pilots being thrown into combat in it things were much harder.

The Spitfire aged a bit better, but with the Griffon engined marks it can be felt that the airframe is giving all it has.

Designs like the Fw190, F4U, P-51 and Tempest clearly had more potential than did the Bf109 or Spitfire, and this can be seen in the post war development of the F4U and Tempest series in particular.

[Squire]

Many flew Yaks.

Damn I forgot the Yak-9U. I love that plane.

[Bruno]

I have been playing this game since the Beta in 1999. You should take some time to educate yourself.

What's your time playing a game have to do with your lack knowledge about the 109 series?

I am not trying to get any postwar F4U's introduced into AH. There is no need, the entire game of Aces High Almost shut down because a simple F4U-1 from 1943 with 4 20mil cannons brought the MA to it's knees until it had to be perked.

That's nonsense, the Chog was perked because every other player in the main was flying one (near 20% of kill totals). It wasn't perked based on aircraft performance but because of the hizookas alone is made it popular...

Its not at '43 plane at that...

Even this statement is incorrect...

Take a 1943 F4U-1 and a 1943 109G and see if you can outrun it? Now try turning or diving.

Don't confuse how AH only models a 109G-6 with a max speed of 385mph with real life, or assume that the only '43 109 was G-6.

As I said get yourself an education, as any anyone can see by your replies you just make one thing up after another...

You still haven't told me what a 'frolines' is?

Tilt,

The Top Allied ace flew Lavochkin's........... the 2nd highest Allied Ace flew P-39's

That's correct, I worded my point incorrectly...

Karnak,

The F4U was ok, but nothing special even in the Pacific.

The Bf109 did not age particularly gracefully. Well trained and experienced pilots could still use it to tremendous success, but for new pilots being thrown into combat in it things were much harder.

Complete Myth. Nachwuchs flying any plane had a rough time not just those in 109s. New 190 pilots didn't have a longer a life expectancy then a new 109 pilot. This was due to overwhelming superiority of Allied numbers not aircraft design. The G-14/AS, G-10 and K-4 were all contemporary aircraft with all the late war Allied aircraft.

[Karnak]

Bruno,

You rather come across as a wee bit biased in favor of the Bf109 as it is your pet aircraft.  My pet aircraft would be the Mossie, Spit and Ki-84, none of which do I insist are the best or fully competitive with the late war fighters.  This may sound natural to you as you think less of them compared to your favorite, but I see it as a more realistic view.  The fact is that the Spitfire and Bf109 were pushing the end of their development capacity in the Bf109K-4 and Spitfire Mk XIV.  A little more could be done, but both were having performance issues already in those forms.  Both suffered from high aileron forces at high speeds, the Bf109 also suffered high elevator forces at high speeds and the Spitfire had serious issues with wing warping and aileron reversal.  They are both great and classic aircraft, but they were really being pushed at the end.

"froline" is almost certainly a misspelling of "frauline", the German word for a young, or unmarried woman.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Karnak
Bruno,

You rather come across as a wee bit biased in favor of the Bf109 as it is your pet aircraft.    


Heh this is a wee bit of an understatement .



Bronk

[HoHun]

Hi Karnak,

>"froline" is almost certainly a misspelling of "frauline", the German word for a young, or unmarried woman.

Ouch :-) It's phonetically correct, more or less, but I didn't recognize it.

Fräulein = Miss

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Karnak]

HoHun,

I had a feeling I was butchering it too, but I figured I could get closer.   German was 10 years ago and my memory of it is spotty at best.

[F4UDOA]

Bruno,

You should check your home for a gas leak.

Froline is a mispelling, I think you can figure it out, your a bright boy.

What's your time playing a game have to do with your lack knowledge about the 109 series?

It has to do with you saying I don't play the game. You are wrong allot for an Uber Mensh.

That's nonsense, the Chog was perked because every other player in the main was flying one (near 20% of kill totals). It wasn't perked based on aircraft performance but because of the hizookas alone is made it popular...

Nearly 20% of the total kills at a 2 to 1 ratio. That's pretty dominate. I don't see the G-10/K-4 racking up those kill numbers and it has plenty of cannons. There are several other aircraft with quad 20mills in AH none of which have had the same effect. How do you explain it? Must be a conspiracy against the 109.

Don't confuse how AH only models a 109G-6 with a max speed of 385mph with real life, or assume that the only '43 109 was G-6.

Bruno,

This goes to my original post. Stop crying like a baby about MW-50 this 10W-40 that. It doesn't matter. The G-6 in AH is as accurate a representation of that aircraft as you will ever see. Guess what, the F4U-1 can be faster too. But the one here is fine.

Stop the Wah, Wah, Wah. Maybe it is not your airplane, maybe it is you?

[Bruno]

Froline is a mispelling, I think you can figure it out, your a bright boy.

You mean misspelling? Well its not even close to Fräulein.

Since you want to insult maybe you should sign up for a refresher grammar lesson as well.

It has to do with you saying I don't play the game. You are wrong allot for an Uber Mensh.

Uber Mensh..? Do you mean Übermensch?

You have yet to prove one thing I said is wrong.

OTOH let us examine your own posts:

3. German aircraft of this variety saw combat in proto-type aircraft with testpilots behind the controls.

Wrong...

I seem to remember a story of un ungunned TA-152 taking on two Tempest causing one to crash?

Wrong (or made up)...

The 109 was at it's end in 1943 let alone 1945.

Wrong...

Stop crying like a baby about MW-50 this 10W-40 that.

You ability to be wrong is only surpassed by your inability to spell.

As I said if you want to insult I have no problem responding in kind.

Nearly 20% of the total kills at a 2 to 1 ratio.

That's because it vulched more then any other plane. Its cannons and ability to carry ordnance made it an excellent base attacker. It could kill gvs with a pop, strafe down buildings etc...

It was not perked because of its flight performance. It was perked because of the performance of its hizookas. Search the old posts and quit whining about the CHOG.

Karnak,

You rather come across as a wee bit biased in favor of the Bf109 as it is your pet aircraft.

Maybe so but what does that have to do with the claims and exaggerations made by F4UDOA in this thread. Post one quote of his regarding the 109 that is 'right'.

As for bias a quick search of this section of the forum using F4UDOA's name will show you bias. He complains about everything from AH favoring cannon armed aircraft  to claiming all 109s controls should be locked in concrete above 350mph. His posts are there waiting for you.

He accuses others of crying but please find a reply by me that could be considered whinging (its a word F4UDOA look it up) by me in this thread. Or heck search all my replies.  

Even this thread is a 'whine' by him. When his claims are contested he doesn't defend his points he squirms about dropping insults.

[HoHun]

Hi F4UDOA,

>Take a 1943 F4U-1 and a 1943 109G and see if you can outrun it? Now try turning or diving.

Well, not judging from the game, but the technical data I've collected for the Me 109, a 1943 Me 109G-2 running at 1.3 ata, 2600 rpm would not be that much slower than the F4U-1D at low to medium altitude, and actually slightly faster above full throttle height. It would be able to outclimb the F4U-1D readily, and it would also enjoy a noticable turn rate advantage.

The bottom line is that a fighter stays competitive as long as its engine stays competitive. The 1943 Messerschmitt certainly does not compare as favourably as it might have because the DB605A engine didn't live up to the expectations, but that was not an airframe problem but a temporary engine development problem. The Me 109's engines of 1944 were superior to those of 1943, so this wasn't a dead-end.

Of course, the airframe limitations of the Me 109 are well-known and they undoubtly count as tactical disadvantages, but that doesn't mean the Me 109 was "at its end in 1943".

Sure, if I were to advise an air force in 1943 on which of the two types to buy, I'd recommend the F4U (even if the buyer had no carriers! :-) since it offers comparable performance combined with much greater operational flexibility. I'd assume in that consideration, the Me 109's most important advantage would be its low price tag ;-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)