Author Topic: Open letter to intellectuals (long, probably too long)  (Read 985 times)

Offline Pepe

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Open letter to intellectuals (long, probably too long)
« on: September 21, 2001, 06:20:00 AM »
The following is an excerpt of the front article appeared in a Spanish Newspaper (ABC Sept 21). I beg both the author (Cándido) and the readers their pardon if I miss with the synthesis or translation:

Arabs are men that invented trigonometry, included algebra in Maths science, or built the first Astronomy Observartory. Meanwhile, europeans searched for the Philosopher's Stone and replaced spiritualism with superstition. Arab Nation's greatness was based in placing reason and work in the first place, instead of fatalism & inspiration. These last aspects destroy willingness and conscience, suppresses liberty and wipe out dignity by taking away responsibility. Muslim fatalism provides with no options and transform the struggle against it in a struggle against a machine. That's what desacralized western countries are facing. After NY blast, there is no doubt terrorism is one of the greatest dangers in today's world.

Intellectuals' approach to this problem tends to focus on the deep motivations of the problem. And there's always a moment where their desire of understanding things leads to confussion. Their consistent perception of themselves as the mirror where the average people should look into and their repugnancy about "specialist's" barbarism (politicians, technicians, military, etc.) leads them to transforming their general ideas about events into the ultimate causes of them. They ellaborate a theory fiting their moral system, and give it to the crowd as if it was the Kingdom's keys.

Unfortunately, problems are never universal, but specific, and qualitative explanations do not solve them. Discussing the moral substrate of atomic knowledge did not avoid Hiroshima. What scientists got in terms of human progress was different from what they thought they would get in intellectual/moral terms.  And this example is a cornerstone in understanding current situation.

It's fundamentally wrong that ellaboration and dialog will stop terrorism. It's more true that facts ar not ellaborated, and their factual nature lies in their unellaborated character. The horror that this nameless aggression stirs up in the U.S.A. is an aggression not to certain (could be historically isolated) ideological or social structures, but an aggression on the basic structures of human society.

In this context, no further significance to be found in the terror action than the action itself. Focusing on previous events trying to find the historic, political or social reasons to the crime is only an ellaboration that falsifies the fact of the terror action. Terrorism has nothing to do with the social or historical system where it lives and breed from time to time. There is no system beyond terrorism. Terrorism is the system itself. That system has to be isolated and destroyed, previous any discussion that connects the terrorist fact with the reasons that try to explain it. With regards to U.S. tragedy, no intellectual ellaboration (usually reduced to transfer the responsibilty from the culprit to the victim) that might obscure evidences about what's happened should weight a fulminant action.

We should not, we must not, do is looking at the present of western civilization into the light of its historical and moral weaknesses, because we would be assasinated. There is no argument between reason and evidence, between war and rights. Instead, we have to understand that terrorism, as it evidenced in the U.S., places western countries in a place where they have to face the urgent need to survive under the worst of the circumstances, that is, stand in front of a tenebrous power apart from any law or right, in fact, against all laws and rights, that wants to take over all of our history. Antirrepresive moans won't do anything beyond leaving things like they are now. Abstraction must leave place to simplicity. Facing a calculated, unlimited violence, rooted in ideologic delirium and developed through no-way-back strategies, intellectuals must defend against their own coherence when that coherence is against history. What is at immediate stake is not his individual way of living and thinking, but the existence of entire countries.

Again, sorry for the long post.

Cheers,

Pepe

Offline Dinger

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Open letter to intellectuals (long, probably too long)
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2001, 11:43:00 AM »
I disagree Pepe.
Terrorism exists for a reason, and occurs to serve a purpose.
In this country, there's the euphemism for terrorism of "Asymmetric warfare".
The notion is this: when you're facing an opponent that is so overwhelmingly powerful that you cannot even hope to win a field engagement, you engage in hit-and-run tactics, with the object of making the opponent's program so costly that said opponent will find it easier to accede to your desires (like leave the country its occupying, release prisoners, whatever).  Terrorism is one way of achieving this goal -- you instill enough fear into all or part of the opposing force that they do something else.  We call it "freedom fighting" when it suits our cause, and "Terrorism" when it doesn't.  These tactics are horrendous, and should be condemned, but they are not without a reason.

That being said, this atrocious act doesn't qualify as terrorist under such terms:  there's no goal here; the economic damage is quite serious, but it's not going to end global market capitalism, nor did the attackers intend to destroy the economy; they killed far too many people to instill fear; they didn't pick a targeted full of US Citizens (there are plenty of those), but a building that housed more ordinary people of all religions and nationalities than any other in the world. The reaction worldwide is not one of fear but of unity and defiance.

This is why honest terrorists the world round (such as the Hezbollah) condemn these acts -- they give suicide-bombers a bad name.

Offline Staga

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Open letter to intellectuals (long, probably too long)
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2001, 12:05:00 PM »
Some info about Hezbollah.
Some parts are little surprising (Well not if you've been watching what happens there).
 http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/1999/11/F.RU.991110134517.html

Offline Pepe

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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2001, 01:47:00 PM »
Dinger,

If you think there is no goal, you are wrong.

This act forms part of a bigger strategy.

The reaction worldwide is NOT unity and defiance. That's not the reaction of muslims, at least a great deal of them. Pakistan is about to have a civil war, and this is only the visible part of the iceberg. Let's see what happens if U.S. strikes Afghanistan or Irak.

Economic damage is secondary to their main target. They are on the second stage of their struggle, and this stage consists in gathering support among muslims, by means of U.S. retaliation. These people (not only Osama bin Laden) knows that they would not achieve anything without muslim unity, without a single muslim "nation". They are trying to use the notion of the exterior enemy to gather that. We are facing a real enemy and a real threat. Now he's using terrorist tactics, he would be using others, if he possibly could. I just don't wanna change IF for WHEN.

There is not such thing as an honest terrorist. You can use guerrilla-warfare, ambush, use whatever means to attack your enemy. Your military targets. For instance, IRA was targeting british military for a while. I can understand they are struggling for his perceived, right or wrong, "liberty". That's not OK because I hate any instance of War, but I can concede that sometimes war is not an option. But when they switch to civilian targets, the situation changes dramatically. Killing inocent, civil people in the struggle process, using sheer terror in civil population as a weapon disqualify the user from the human specie, in my book. It's worse than an animal.

The article (and I think it's dead right) says that we are facing people whose ultimate goal is destroying the basements of our social system. The very roots of our way of living. No matter what are the ultimate reasons for that. Whatever they are those roots are irrelevant at this time.

You can not possibly negotiate with them. At the very best, you would be buying time. Or, better, you would be selling them time.

Staga,

What's surprising? You could never win a long haul war if you do not educate your people. I doubt they discuss religious matters in a critic, neutral way. I doubt they discuss western civilization values on a constructive way either.


Pepe

Offline Staga

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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2001, 02:02:00 PM »
I believe some people still think Hezbollah is just a terrorist-group killing innocent people.
What they don't know is that organization  runs schools, hospitals, helps elderly people in their needs etc.

Everything is not black and white, There's also different shades of gray.

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2001, 02:08:00 PM »
I still don't read that in the article.  It seems pretty clear:
"There is no system beyond terrorism. Terrorism is the system itself."
And it's this I disagree with.
You might be right.  The goal may have been to unify the islamic world to fight against the West, but this won't achieve it.
Our esteemed leader W might make a mess of things by taking on every perceived terrorist-harboring power out there, and raining bombs on devastated cities, but I'd hope he sees there are ways to root out these guys that don't play into their hands.

Regardless, "honest terrorism" seeks goals that are somewhere above total chaos.  I believe there is a distinction, but I don't believe that that makes "honest terrorists" morally upright; I can understand their thinking, while roundly condemning their actions.  What we have here is something horrendous -- I'm afraid I can't understand their thinking.
And, yeah, I agree with the article when it suggests that we shouldn't search for explanations or root causes in our society for this act.  There aren't any.  I just disagree that this is true for any act of terror.

And frankly, I don't make much distinction between the life of an 18-year-old draftee (or volunteer, for that matter) and that of an 18-year-old civilian.  Life is precious; and I hate to see warmongers kill thousands of people in the hope that millions more will die.  If that's a reason for terrorism, it's one that self-respecting terrorists spit upon.

So yeah, put me down as vehemently opposed to terrorism, but also as one who doesn't consider this an act of terrorism.  Terror isn't the goal; war and chaos is.


---
and about the Hezbollah there -- you will note that their schools include plenty of teaching on the value of "martyrs".  They've also got some nice posters they like to put around their shilka batteries and so on, about the US and Israel.

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: Dinger ]

Offline discod

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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2001, 02:41:00 PM »
Quote
"So yeah, put me down as vehemently opposed to terrorism, but also as one who doesn't consider this an act of terrorism. Terror isn't the goal; war and chaos is."

The attack on the WTC and Pentagon were definately and act of war.  We call them terrorist acts of war.  I beleive that the main reason we refer to these attacks as terrorist is because in a pure act of war some attempt would have been made to disable our resourses, economy, military, or other strategic target.  I beleive it is considered a terrorist act of war when the target is nothing more than symbolic and not strategic.

Does that make sense?   :)

Offline bod

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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2001, 05:47:00 PM »
Pepe, don't be decieved. You can exchange terrorism with capitalism and the free world with the communstic world in that article, and it would make perfectly sense 15 years ago. You can exchange the free world with the 3rd Reich and terrorism with communism, and it would also make perfectly sense 60 years ago.

Stupidity and simplifications has always been a poor excuse even though it has been proven wrong over and over. If our society were all good, then terrorism wouldn't exist. There is a reason for everything even though we do not need to be a part of that reason.

There is a time for talk and there is a time for action. Regarding terrorism it is a time for both, not either or.

Offline Greese

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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2001, 06:38:00 PM »
A train leaves Chicago at 1:30 in the afternoon.  A second train leaves LA five minutes earlier.  Both are travelling at 65mph...............

Offline Pepe

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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2001, 08:16:00 PM »
Dinger,

I disagree that war and chaos is the goal for them. They are instruments. As they use terrorism. But terrorism is now used for the triple purpose of frightening western population, disrupting its way of life and attracting retaliation, if possible to the least imoportant geographical point, to gather momentum and supporters.

Everyone not absolutely demented seeks goals above total chaos. As it is in this case. A terrorist seeking total chaos and nothing beyond, is plain insane. A terrorist (I still don't make any distinction as to their honesty) seeks always a superior goal with his acts. Still, terror as a weapon is so overwhelming that any further ellaboration is futile. No civilized nation should stand terrorism. It's like hijackers in the planes. Only the last flight acted properly, because they understood the whole picture. Well...we are now on a plane, and we are being hijacked. We have to decide if we negotitate or if we take over the plane, risking a crash.

We have to fight terrorism physically. Then look for the reasons to avoid repeating bad things. But physical destruction of terrorists is key, because they won't negotitate. And look for examples. They won't rest until THEIR ultimate goals are achieved. They will make no compromises there. Any negotitation with a terrorist is only a step ceded. I'm not talking about crazy lone bomber, but organized terrorism. Again, the key point is that we are at a point where negotiations and comprehension of the reasons beyond terrorism won't do us any good. It's time for acion. Nothing can substitute that.

Pepe.

Offline Pepe

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Open letter to intellectuals (long, probably too long)
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2001, 08:33:00 PM »
bod,

You are making gross mistakes here. 3rd. Reich was as terrorist as Hezbollah can be now. Stalinism was as terrorist as ETA or IRA are today.

Another mistake is your second paragraph. There are times when you have to be sophisticated and sutile. There are times when you need to simplify. It's false that a "good" society would not have to face terrorism. Nothing assures that. Terrorism, as we know it today, is imposed on any random nation. No need to do things wrong. Look to our own problem with Basque separatists. They were born in late sixties to fight agains Franco's dictatorship. We have seen transition to democracy. Spanish political structure is one of the most liberal with regards to self-ruling in the whole Europe, AFAIK. Still, they are falsifying history, and teaching his children that Spain is the opressor, everything bad comes from Spain, and they are a superior, more pure race, fountain of all virtues. Of course, they teach them to throw Molotov coctels to inocent people. And to kill whoever disagrees with their point of view. We tried to negotiate. We tried it. They fooled us. We fooled ourselves. Even their political supporters fool themselves thinking they can control them. Ha! In that case, their goal is a Marxist state. First, independence, then Marxism. In the meantime, terror and assasinations.

No time, no space to talk with terrorists. They don't want. When they talk, they are buying time. You need to be a fanatic to justify killing inocent people. It's simply no use in trying to negotiate with people like that. They use a different scale of values than you.

The one and only thing you need to do with terrorists, with regards to analysis, is understanding their motivations. Not for negotiation purposes, but for negating the contidions for their rebirth after you get rid of them. Especially when your own, your own country survival is at risk.

You fool yourself if you think you can end terrorism by talking. We know that very well in Spain.

Pepe.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2001, 10:34:00 PM »
you people make things so complicated, it's really very simple, if you try to kill me i will kill you, and it dosn't matter why you tryed to do it, i will still kill you

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2001, 10:38:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001:
you people make things so complicated, it's really very simple, if you try to kill me i will kill you, and it dosn't matter why you tryed to do it, i will still kill you

whoopee john!  You're a fediddlein genius!!  That's the most succinct arguement I've seen anywhere on this entire subject.  <S!>

[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: Thrawn ]

Offline bod

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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2001, 04:40:00 AM »
A simplistic view on the enemy serves one purpose, and one purpose only: To gain support in fighting the enemy. It works very good.

Who are terrorists and who are not is a matter of definition no matter how cruel this may seem. Wether your family get blown up by a suicide bomber or a cruise missile do not change the way you feel toward the one responcible. Terrorists ARE created, they just don't pop up by themselves. ANY attack that is percieved as unjust will create terrorists no matter if it is only percieved unjustice or "real" unjustice. Blod and human suffering is much thicker than any "justice" put forth by anyone.

Stalin executed 40-50 million people to stop "capitalistic terrorism" or people working against the revolution, did that help? Of course not.

Offline Pepe

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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2001, 04:51:00 AM »
John9001,

That's exactly the article's point. We are not at a time where we can argue about reasons. The guy would kill us anyhow.

Cheers,

Pepe