Political hecklers

[Suave]

You're wrong Toad. If you can't see that you might as well be a republican.

[Toad]

And upon which post.. in fact which part of which post.. do we differ?

[Clifra Jones]

Chairboy and Suave,

Find me one credible source for a documented case of Federal abuse of the PA. Not from some Loony left-wing, progressive, peacenik website. I mean a credible source.

Google 'abuse of the patriot act' and you get a whole lot of unconfirmed allegations. Even when you look at reports from the NYT and CBS news  after you get past the inflammatory headlines you find out than none of the reported abuses have been confirmed. They are just that, allegations.

Find me one American Citizen who has been unjustly charged and convicted under the Patriot Act. I tried could not find it.


Just keep drinking that cool-aid!

[DoctorYO]

The thread was "Asian Man Shot Dead on London Tube". I don't think I was the one embarassed there.

trying to claim the high ground in this thread is rather pathetic on your part..  reviewing what you have said and your intial responses to state sponsered murder of its guests for political stability, the misinformation and spin, and you as a (sic ) "intelligent adult"  just soaked it up, a cog in the wheel.. for your defense you were not alone..

Amusing..  

(by Gunthr)

You can't be as obtuse as to not see it, Dr. Yo.

Who's obtuse now..  


 I remember that thread; i posted nearly the exact questions that later became truth..  yet i was chastised for it..  not unlike this 82 year old thrown out of his own party meeting for heckling ..  watch cspan "meet the prime minister" heckling is deeply rooted in British politics and imo (im not UK but from what ive seen with my own eyes) is accepted and even appreciated..







DoctorYo

PS: this heckler got hosed by his own party, a party he has been in longer than straw and blair have been alive..  

insert ironic fark.com tag...


On a side note:

Find me one credible source for a documented case of Federal abuse of the PA. Not from some Loony left-wing, progressive, peacenik website. I mean a credible source.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=Brandon+Mayfield&btnG=Search+News

take your pick bub.....



DoctorYo

[Chairboy]

If you're truly interested in understanding some of the concerns that people who value liberty have, check out the EFF's writeup.  The EFF is hardly a leftist scare mongering organization, and their report is free of the "crazy frothing liberal" element that yanks credibility from so many people these days:

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/20011031_eff_usa_patriot_analysis.php

Regards,

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Chairboy
I'm not saying it indicated a collapse of the system, just that it was another example of how any power can and will be abused by SOMEONE, which is something that is often overlooked by those who create them.  Some of these recent 'peace at all costs' laws have bypassed critical checks and balances in our system, so the opportunity for abuse is that much more present.

Do you think that using an anti-terrorism statute in the UK to arrest someone who yelled 'Nonsense!' is appropriate?

Do you think that using an anti-terrorism statute in the US to arrest someone who is a public nuisance is appropriate?

If the answer to either of the above is yes, then we have a deep seated basis for disagreement.

If, however, your answer to the two questions is no, then it turns out that there isn't any argument here.

Saying that power will be abused by someone is not a sufficient reason to eliminate consideration for defense of a country or community. If you want to take it to the extreme then we would need to remove ALL power to anyone and have total anarchy. That way no one will have any power to be corrupted by. Yep THAT would work real well.

Frankly  there is quite a bit about the brits that I don't like as far as their "system" is concerned. Their nanny state is just making sure that there is perfect security. I wonder if there is anyone left in that nation who feels people should be responsible rather than the government being responsible for everything.

As to the checks and ballances, do you have a link to a court conviction for the patriot act tresspassing you cited? I don't doubt that the court dropped the charges if they even got that far.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by Swoop
Get this.


At the British Labour party conference in Brighton yesterday an 82 year old man who's been a party supporter and member for 57 years was thrown out and detained by police under 'the provention of terrorism act'.


What for?

For shouting the word 'nonsense'.


Some bright spark in the government has already realised that this is a pooch screw and decided to apologise......but good grief Penfold!

Since when is heckling a politician terrorism?
It's bleedin' tradition.


link

Just a little recon by the Gov to see how people with tolerate the abuse and how they will respond to using the "T" word on it's own citizens.  Don't worry, next time they try squashing free speech, it'll be more covert.

[Xargos]

I hate to say it but I'll have to side with Chairboy on this one.

Back in 1986 I was living in downtown Charleston, S.C. and I was walking home from work at about 10PM when a black guy stoped me to ask for a light.  Now having a black person and a white person together can only mean one thing, that they a dealing drugs.  As soon as I put my lighter back in my pocket and start to walk off a "Town Clown", a white one,  pulls up and grabs us both.  He searches the black guy and finds nothing, then he searches me and finds a 3 1/2 inch bladed folding pocket knife in a knife pouch on my belt.  He handcuffs me and said he was arresting me for drinking in public:confused: .  Then while he was driving me to the jailhouse he said that he was charging me for having a concealed weapon:confused: .  I had to spend three days in jail until the court date because I had no money for bail.  The Judge asked me what happend and I told him, then he stared at the cop for a second then he let me go.  I lost three days worth of pay because of a stupid cop who had been on the force for over 15 years.  Plus how do you think this looked to my boss at the time?

No one can tell me that Law Enforcement does not abuse their power.  I have been a Corrections Officer in a Max prison for over five years now and have noticed that real criminals get treated better then the general public.

[beet1e]

Swoop - I read the report in the Telegraph. It says Wolfgang called Jack Straw a liar!

The Foreign Secretary was telling the conference that Britain was in Iraq "for one reason only" - to help the elected Iraqi government - when Walter Wolfgang shouted: "That's a lie and you know it."

Telegraph report 29/09/2005

One almost begins to wonder if this could be the writing on the wall for this bloody government, or at least the beginning of the raising of the hand holding the crayon which is about to write on the wall.

[Toad]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
reviewing what you have said and your intial responses to state sponsered murder of its guests for political stability, the misinformation and spin, and you as a (sic ) "intelligent adult"  just soaked it up, a cog in the wheel.. for your defense you were not alone..

[/b]

Here's my first response in that thread:

Anyway, to the cops that had to deal with this guy. Took a lot of courage. I hope it indeed turns out to be a "righteous" shooting; I'd hate to see the outrage if it turns out to be a mistake

Guess you weren't the only one to have doubts, your prescient majesty.

Have an anklehumping day, Toto.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Xargos
I hate to say it but I'll have to side with Chairboy on this one.

Back in 1986 I was living in downtown Charleston, S.C.

Long before the PA then.

[lazs2]

I think chairboy and toad both unwittingly pointed to the real problem.... we have too many laws against freedom.

If they can't get you on one law they will simply look through the book of.... what is it now?  5 million laws? and find one that will apply.

No matter what you do... probly someone doesn't like it and... there is probly a law on the books somewhere that makes it illegal.

lazs

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Toad
Given the Madrid and London experiences, do you think there should be any restriction or security screen in place at train stations similar to that in place at airports?

Well, freedom freedom freedom freedom