F6f-p

[Galand]

I have been a fan of the Hellcat, but lately it doesn't seem to turn as well as it did. I'm sure it's just my perception because I can't believe the AH staff would ever change a plane without absolute full disclosure. Anyway, I'm sure it's my perception, like I said.

So having said that, it's not as much of a "wish" for me as it was, but I'd like to see an F6F-P with 2 20mm's replacing the innermost 50's. That would be a nice carrier plane.

[Greebo]

I can't say I've noticed any difference in the way the Hellcat flies. I'm sure HTC would put any FM change in the readme for that version.

A cannon armed Hellkitty would give me something to spend my perks on, but IIRC from last time this came up they were a rare aircraft in RL.

[frank3]

It would

[Hornet33]

Originally posted by Greebo
A cannon armed Hellkitty would give me something to spend my perks on, but IIRC from last time this came up they were a rare aircraft in RL.

And the 163, 262, 152 weren't rare. I would have to look it up again but I do remember reading that the 20mm cannon "option" was built into most later war production Hellcats. The mounting hardware for the inner guns would take the .50 BMG or the 20mm. It was just a matter of switching a few things around in the weapons bay to accomodate the gun and ammo. I would agree that it would need to be perked to a small amount. Something along the lines of the F4U-1C. Those were fairly rare also.

I would like to see it.

[Clifra Jones]

When the Hellcats are re-done it would be nice to have. Perked like the c-hog.

Grumman F6F-5 with 4 50's and 2 20mm Hispano cannon.



http://www.bismarck-class.dk/other_...f5_hellcat.html

Flown mostly by the RAF.
During 1944 deliveries began of a new Hellcat version, the F6F-5, with a number of detail refinements and improvements. The R-2800-IOW engine (with water injection) was retained, but the cowling was modified, and the windshield was also improved. Provision was made for 2,000 lb of bombs under the centre section and six rockets under the outer wings, and 20 mm cannon usually replaced the inner machine guns on this model. Production of this version totalled 6,436, plus 1,189 F6F-5Ns with APS-6 in the pod on the starboard wing. The Royal Navy received 252 F6F-3s and 930 F6F-5s which it operated as Hellcat I and Hellcat II respectively.


__________________

[Hornet33]

Found this info on the 20mm issue of the Hellcat. The F6F-5N/P were all equipped with the 20mm gun package, and it says "many" not sure how many F6F-5's had it also. over 1500 F6F-5N's were manufactured, and there were 3 active squadrons flying it in the Pacific AOR during the war. If you look at the tech specs at the bottom of the page it shows that the 20mm .50cal mixed battery of guns was used.

Lets get this in the game.

Oh I also know that some people will say that AH2 does not have night time so why do we need a night fighter F6F-5N? I say it has the exact same performance as the F6F-5 and who says we can't fly a night fighter during the day?

Give me my 20mm cannons please.  http://vf8squad.8m.net/hellcatpilots/aircraft_files/Americain/Amer_navy/F6F/F6F-plate1.html

[Krusty]

I say this plane will NEVER have a place in AH. Ever. Damn, man, 2x50cals on a spitfire are pretty lethal. 4x50cals on an FM2 or P51B are more than lethal. 6x50cals is one of the most lethal setups in this game. And you want a relatively rare night fighter bomber interceptor variant that ONLY had cannon because it would only get 1 shot at bombers?

Pshaw... Then why don't we get the 4x20mm mustang? Why don't we get the 6x20mm 190A? I know *IT* saw more action and got more kills than a cannon armed F6F did.

Silly and frivolous request. "I want a super plane! Wheee!!!!".

We get enough posts like this already. Sorry if I've been blunt, but it had to be said.

[Hornet33]

Krusty did you even look at the specs on this plane? It was not a relatively rare night fighter bomber interceptor. Over 1500 were produced and saw action. That is a relatively significant number. Also if you actually read the information it says "many" standard Hellcats were equipped this way. It flew in larger numbers than any of the super uber German planes did. Hell you already have a 190 with 2 20mm and 2 30mm cannons onboard but this is a ridiculous request? Give me a break. What about the Hurri IIc with 4 20mm cannons / Niki with 4 /F4U-1C with 4? We have these so why not the F6F-5N variant? Perk the thing sure, but it should be perked like the F4U-1C.

It HAS a place. It SAW combat.

READ THE FACTS.

[straffo]

I wonder who will fly the 6x20mm 190

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Hornet33
What about the Hurri IIc with 4 20mm cannons / Niki with 4 /F4U-1C with 4? We have these so why not the F6F-5N variant?

Facts are one thing. Crying for a super plane's another

"Ooh, ooh! The hurricane had 4x20mm, I think we should have that on 109s too! I think the la7 should have 4x hispanos!! The Tempest had them!!!"

Reason our F6F has 6x50cals is because BY FAR the vast VAST VAST majority of all f6fs had 6x50cal. The select MINORITY that had them saw limited use in a limited field (night fighting).

You state that the planes were built to take the guns. That doesn't mean they TOOK the guns. The US forces had a strong belief in the power of 50cals. Despite having the mounts for it, those wings that "could allow" 20mms mostly had 50cals in those spots.

F4u1C is a rare plane, it was to combat kamikaze planes, but happened to serve other roles because the people flying it at the time (just a single FG, I think?) were overworked, and had to do whatever they could whenever they could. That's not a direct comparison to a special radar equipped night fighting f6f. Hell even the radar equipped f4u's had all 50cals!

[Krusty]

Originally posted by straffo
I wonder who will fly the 6x20mm 190

Considering it will probably make you roll like crap, and will probably slow you down 50mph, I wonder that myself

I'd try it out for bomber busting, but I think I'd be the only one.

[Hornet33]

Boy you really don't want to see this plane do you. It's obvious you didn't read the information I found through research on this topic. 2 variants of the F6F, the N and P, were equipped with the 20mm. It wasn't an option, it was standard equipment with over 1500 being built and flown that way. The information also states that MANY standard F6F fighters were also equiped this way as an option.

Here is a cut and paste from the article:

Its armament, power, and range gave the Hellcat great versatility. The basic weaponry consisted of six wing-mounted .50 caliber machine guns, each with 400 rounds of ammunition. Many, including ALL  F6F-5N and F6F-5P variants substituted a 20mm cannon with 200 rounds for the innermost machine gun in each wing. The Hellcat could carry a up two 1,000 pound bombs. Its most destructive weapons were six 5-inch HVAR's (High Velocity Aircraft Rockets), which the author Barrett Tillman described as "equal to a destroyer's broadside."

The F6F-5N was the definitive night-fighting version of the Hellcat, over 1500 of these built by Grumman.

This information was found through research, not wishfull thinking of "oh this would be cool, and other planes have it so I want it on this one."

I don't even fly the F6F all that much. This originator of this thread got me interested  so I went and did a little homework and found this information. I personally think it would be a nice addition to the plane set. You obviously disagree which is fine by me, but your throwing a fit, yelling NO, NO, NO, not in my game, without even looking at the facts presented to you says much for your maturity level.

Besides this is the WISHLIST forum where we are ALLOWED to express our wishes for different things that we, as paying subscribers, would like to see. Thankfully you do NOT get to decide what is or is not put in the game as your name is NOT HiTech.

I've done my homework on this subject and I'm done. Have a nice day:aok

[Krusty]

Apparently 1400+ of those with 20mm were in the fleet air arm. Many of the aircraft late in the war were being shipped directly to ships in the SE Pacific (as opposed to going to UK then out to fleet), and at the end of the war many many hundreds still en route were dumped overboard as surplus. Considering the FAA had 50% more -5Ns than they had standard (about 900+ F6F-5), chances are a great number of those dumped were -5Ns.

I wonder how many, in fact, saw combat.

EDIT:

Oh, and checking the first page that comes up when you google "f6f 20mm" doesn't really help if it's an amateur website. A slightly more credible website might be :

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Hellcat.htm

it's a good read

/EDIT

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Hornet33
Found this info on the 20mm issue of the Hellcat. The F6F-5N/P were all equipped with the 20mm gun package, and it says "many" not sure how many F6F-5's had it also. over 1500 F6F-5N's were manufactured, and there were 3 active squadrons flying it in the Pacific AOR during the war. If you look at the tech specs at the bottom of the page it shows that the 20mm .50cal mixed battery of guns was used.

Lets get this in the game.

Oh I also know that some people will say that AH2 does not have night time so why do we need a night fighter F6F-5N? I say it has the exact same performance as the F6F-5 and who says we can't fly a night fighter during the day?

Give me my 20mm cannons please.  http://vf8squad.8m.net/hellcatpilots/aircraft_files/Americain/Amer_navy/F6F/F6F-plate1.html

You do realize that the F6F-5N purely a night fighter with onboard radar that did restrict its handling and lowered its top speed by 20MPH.  While yes, some of the late model F6F-3s were modified to allow them to carry cannons and the F6F-5 had this modification designed in, it was rarely done outside of the night fighter variant.


Notice the radar pod under the wing.

Just because the tech specs list it, doesn't mean it was used.  I made the same error with the P-38D.  All the tech specs listed the D model as having either the 37mm or 23mm cannon along with the 4x. .50 caliber brownings, in reality the D only carried 4x. .50s and no cannon as shown to me by Dan/CorkyJr.

Originally posted by Hornet33
Many, including ALL  F6F-5N and F6F-5P variants substituted a 20mm cannon with 200 rounds for the innermost machine gun in each wing.
 

The F6F-5P was the recce version of the Hellcat and most of them were unarmed, the only exception being the fighter recce version which only carried 4.x .50 caliber Browning machine guns.


ack-ack

[Hornet33]

Nice page on the Hellcats. Didn't see anywere on it where they said the were dumping hellcats over the side. Looked at the armormnet specs on your page and it tracks right along with the info I found. Yep they flew with 20mm. Thanks for confirming that my information was correct.

Six fixed forward firing 0.5in Browning wing guns with 400 rounds per gun (some F6F-5 and F6F-5N Hellcats had two 20 mm cannon plus four 0.5 inch machine-guns)  
Underwing attachments for six rockets  
Centre-section pylons for up to 2,000 lb of bombs

from the page you posted.