Author Topic: "Intruder" in my house!  (Read 2302 times)

Offline kevykev56

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1391
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2005, 06:32:11 PM »
Thanks guys for all the constructive comments!

I would like to answer the few questions or comments people had.

Yes I have a dog, he is old and was asleep in the room with my wife. Dog is tired in his old age and doesnt bark at night anymore. I am a constant insomniac only sleeping on average 3 hours a night since birth. I guess Im the watch dog.

All my doors were locked, I had assumed the windows were locked as well. My son who has been having some issues of late with making bad decisions. He left it unlocked for just this reason. He knows there are firearms in the house and it never crossed his mind before he came through the window.

The second person was one of his friends.

Since I am awake almost all night and usually awake when my wife gets up that I dont feel a need for an alarm.


As far as range time, I have had lots. This year alone I have been though at least 10,000 rounds. And thats not counting the .22    There IMHO is no real training for this unless your an officer who has to experience this multiple times. I was USAF, not Army...lol.




I really am now starting to think It was the right choice. Maybe it was in the back of my mind it was my son. I now dont regret not taking the gun. I would rather sacrifice myself than take a family members life. Hindsight is always 20/20. This is one I am thankful I made what I now think was the right choice.


My training may be old school, it was grandpa's training when I was a kid. "Son, Never ever point a gun at anyone unless you plan on killing them."   Yes its old school but has served me well so far.  I feel I stuck to that training with this incident and still will follow his words. He had lots of Army training in France.


Dedalos, bottom line is I dont have a gun to protect my VCR. I have it to protect my family and our lives. Not just against home invasion there are more reasons than need to be discussed here.  I dont want to turn this into a gun control thread that gets locked. It is about a choice that sometimes people have to make. I was looking for input on the choice I made and have appreciated all comments including yours Dedalos, thanks!


This night will have long lasting affects on my family. Mostly my son, his issues go deeper than just climbing through a window. I will be concentrating on him even more now to help him throught his troubles. I just need to get over mine so I can help him better. This thread has really helped me to start the process. Thanks to all!!
RHIN0 Retired C.O. Sick Puppies Squadron

Offline kevykev56

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1391
Re: Re: "Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2005, 06:36:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Picking up the gun doesn't obligate you to shoot someone.  Not picking up the gun doesn't give you that option, though.  Had it been an armed intruder, after he'd killed you and your wife, he may have gotten a decent price for your unfired shotgun.




No it doesnt obligate you, However I can now see how accidents of this nature happen. I never knew this emotion before saturday night. And I will be a bit more prepaired for it if it ever happens again.

Without the gun only my life and my wifes were at risk. I would rather risk those than either of my kids.
RHIN0 Retired C.O. Sick Puppies Squadron

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17773
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2005, 06:42:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Would rather have spent it on her college, car and clothes instead of having to file counter charges to get the little bastards parents off my back.


See nows here's a very big part of the problem.
the Parents and this I no spankee you no spankee my kid BS.

In the old days had this happened Not only would Hangtime have beat the crap out of the kid. But after the kid got picked up by the parents at the cop shop or hospital and got home the Parents would have also beaten     the crap out of the kid.

there wouldnt have been a lawsuit

Then again. There is a good chance this might not have happned to begin with because in the old days most kids wouldnt have done it to begin with Not because they might get caught and have the crap beat out of em by the homeowner, Not because they might gt arrested.
But because they were afraid of what their parents might do to them if they found out.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2005, 08:32:45 PM »
Curval, I warn you sternly:  "Oi!"
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2005, 08:37:40 PM »
See...a good "Oi" can work.

;-)

Good post Kev.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Martlet

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4390
Re: Re: Re: "Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2005, 09:06:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kevykev56
No it doesnt obligate you, However I can now see how accidents of this nature happen. I never knew this emotion before saturday night. And I will be a bit more prepaired for it if it ever happens again.

Without the gun only my life and my wifes were at risk. I would rather risk those than either of my kids.


Your kids lives would only be at risk if you shoot when you aren't sure of your target.  I guess if you don't trust your gun handling skills, you were right not to take it.  Then again, you probably shouldn't own a firearm.

If it had been an intruder, your kids would have grown up parentless.  Sounds like a risk to me.

Offline Rolex

  • AH Training Corps
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2005, 09:27:47 PM »
"If it had been an intruder, your kids would have grown up parentless. Sounds like a risk to me."

"Conjecture."

"Sustained."

Offline kevykev56

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1391
Re: Re: Re: Re: "Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2005, 09:39:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Your kids lives would only be at risk if you shoot when you aren't sure of your target.  I guess if you don't trust your gun handling skills, you were right not to take it.  Then again, you probably shouldn't own a firearm.

If it had been an intruder, your kids would have grown up parentless.  Sounds like a risk to me.




Growing up parentless = Growing up

Better than not growing up at all.


Before Saturday night I was just as sure of my gun handling skills as you are today. I ask you, would you handle a gun while intoxicated? No you wouldnt im sure. Any sensable gun owner would not. I was somewhat impaired due to the emotinal state I was in.

Would I have made the right decision if I had pulled the gun out and charged into the room? I would like to think I would have. But unless you have ever felt the way I did at that moment you just dont know.

Do I think I Shouldnt own a firearm becasue I made a rational decision under duress to not pick it up becasue my actions and judgments could be impaired?

Well, I dont plan on chopping them up anytime soon.

Some of them are nice to look at and shoot, not all are for home defense :aok

RHIN0 Retired C.O. Sick Puppies Squadron

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2005, 09:44:37 PM »
The mosin Nagant 38 is for homedefense.  It's a carbine with a hellofa bullet.  Anything that isn't imploded when hit will be deaf and blind from the muzzle flash.





Kev, I have been thinking about this recently.  A lot of people here say that they would take a flashlight along with a gun.

But I came to the conclusion that it would take major major balls, brass, cahones, however you want to say it to actually turn that light on.

Every single person here would want to keep the advantage in their own territory.  Turning on the light would give away a lot of information and would be very confrontational.  And you would have no idea where the confrontation would go.


While I don't think people would just start blasting away in the dark, I do think that very few people would actually hit the switch on the flashlight.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2005, 12:18:14 AM »
Well, I've read through the entire thread and see several points that seem valid upon the surface, but are woefully inadequate in practice.

First, getting into a physical encounter in a dark room with zero information is, and I mean this with all due respect, a very bad choice. The single most dangerous factor is a total lack of knowledge of what you are dealing with. Indeed, with or without a firearm, this could lead to tragic consequences.

Since you have the advantage of being aware of intruders, and the intruders are unaware of your presence, you surrendered your edge when you kicked down the door. Had these been real criminals, and they were armed, you may very well be dead.

Let's assume these were dangerous criminals, not your son and his friend. You know where they are. With a firearm you can contain them, and keep them where they are, inasmuch as they cannot get loose inside your house.

First and foremost, you keep them isolated by making exiting the door into the hallway suicidal. Item number one is always "contain the threat". Second, you turn on the hall lights. It is absolutely essential that you be able to see the intruder and determine if they are strangers or family. As long as they remain the room, that doesn't matter. You have them confined. If they don't notice the lights going on, make sure they are aware that they cannot exit the room by announcing your presence and informing them of you intention to kill them should they attempt to exit the door. Position yourself to the strong side of the door, well beyond reach and preferably down below the normal line of sight. Since virtually all interior doors open inward, they must expose themselves to your line of sight to open the door, even a crack to see out. Your eyes have adjusted to the bright light, their eyes have not. That gives you another edge.

Now, all of the yelling and lights on will wake up the rest of the household. Have someone dial 911 while you keep these guys isolated. The odds are that they have already evacuated. Have your wife watch for the police, but tell her not to open the door until she has visual confirmation that its the cops at the front door and not the bad guys.

This scenario accomplishes the goals of:

A) Isolating the threat.
B) Neutralizing the threat.
C) Minimizing the risk to you and your family.
D) Being able to identify the threat as intruders or family (thus the absolute need to illuminate the area of likely confrontation).
E) If the intruders are family, you have not shot them and they will surely identify themselves when challenged.
F) You allowed the bad guy(s) a way out, thus greatly reducing the probability of a deadly confrontation.
G) Limited the loss or damage to one room and its contents.
H) Virtually guaranteed that they will never return.

Remember this also; being armed does not mean you must shoot. It means you have that option should the need arise. Being unarmed means being at extreme risk if the bad guys are armed. Defending against home invasions or night burglers is all about being reducing risks and maximizing your options. Sleep with bedroom doors closed and locked. Any obstacle is better than nothing. Lock all exterior doors. Don't leave windows open or even unlocked at night. Some windows have mechanical locks that allow the window to be partially opened. These are ok for bedrooms, where the racket required to defeat those locks will surely wake you. Don't depend on them in unoccupied rooms. Invest in a few window airconditioners if it's warm. The AC unit is a substantial obstacle. Leave a light on inside and outside. I have four motion sensing halogens that illuminate the property like the Sing Sing's yard should someone approach the house. Alarm systems have a place, but make sure you invest in panic button pads for all bedrooms. Rhino shoud get a second, more proactive dog.. There's nothing quite as useless as a useless dog. For added effect, invest in dummy video cameras and mount them outside so that it appears that all approaches to the home are covered (this is highly effective at getting your house ruled out by a casing burgler). If your house looks like serious thought has gone into security, the average thief will simply move on to a easier target.

Most burglers are opportunistic. Eliminate opportunities and you substantially eliminate the threat.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Rolex

  • AH Training Corps
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2005, 01:18:10 AM »
You know, this thread has been fascinating to me, and that is without any sarcasm or cynicism. First, I don't have any problems with reasonable, responsible people owning guns. I've fired off enough .223, .38, .45, 12 gauge and even .50 cal rounds to understand the fun and/or 'testosterone' factor of it all.

The fascinating part is the mindset of fear. Fear and preparation for what seems like the inevitable invasion. The tactical and strategic defense systems of... your homes?

I've gotten completely out of that mindset and my situational awareness about my personal safety has fallen off the scale. I don't even think about it, except when I travel. In almost 15 years, I've never been in a situation where I've felt the adrenaline from fear of being in some neighborhood or situation where the fight-or-flee instinct has kicked in.

No wonder you guys are so high strung about everything. No wonder you're always ready to pick a fight and are confrontational about little things. It's like you're living in fear of your lives everyday. I suppose I would be the same way too, given the state of the societies you are in.

To me, that just sucks.

Offline AdmRose

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
      • http://www.geocities.com/cmdrrose/index.html
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2005, 01:21:30 AM »
Routine activities theory states that crime requires:
1) A motivated offender
2) A suitable target
3) Lack of a capable guardian

Remove any or all of these requirements and crime will not occur.

Offline kevykev56

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1391
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2005, 01:48:34 AM »
Widewing, I enjoyed your post. Yes every point you made is true and valid. I do not take offense and yes it was dumb to go into the room without protection and going in blind to confront the situation.

I cant pick apart all my thoughts at that moment. Honestly it was less than a 20 second timeframe from first noise to bursting into the room. One reason I started this post is, I really had no clue why I chose to handle it the way I did.

I can sit back now and try and analyze it. Not sure at this point it helps. I can however learn from this situation and change the way I react if it ever happens again. This is an advantage I have that someone in a real intruder situation may not have.

Again I appreciate all good and bad comments. Yes I screwed up in some ways, In others I feel I handled it OK. The thing I did most right in this incident was scare the crap out of my son. I think maybe this has had at least made him understand how a simple decision to enter the window could have resulted in his life ending.



And as for the dog, lol, Its 0139 and Im still awake. I have to go to work in 3 1/2 hours. I dont sleep. Until either I die or start taking drugs I will be the watchdog. accept tonight Im traveling for work in a hotel 1000 miles away from home. So the dog is all they have besides the guns. Hopefully the training my wife and kids have had with what to do in this situation would save them. Im sure not going to lose sleep over it, my daughter can knock a man down 10 outof 10 times at 10 yards. shes a good shot :aok
RHIN0 Retired C.O. Sick Puppies Squadron

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2005, 02:15:13 AM »
damn, rolex... ..that's a heluva endictment.

ever occur to you that we could all just be lookin forward to killin our kids and neighbors at the drop of a hat? Just got my cat back from attack school.. she's been trained to rip the eyes outta trespassing sleeping babies in carriges by attacking from on top of the door.

Im ready fer anything.

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Tarmac

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3988
"Intruder" in my house!
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2005, 02:37:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Kev, I have been thinking about this recently.  A lot of people here say that they would take a flashlight along with a gun.

But I came to the conclusion that it would take major major balls, brass, cahones, however you want to say it to actually turn that light on.


Thanks.  I do it on average probably about once a week.  The light goes on when I need to see something, turns off when I don't.