Author Topic: Have you seen this Chinese pilot video?  (Read 3208 times)

Offline Boroda

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Have you seen this Chinese pilot video?
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2001, 12:59:00 PM »
Dowdning, at least you are an ordinary "US-o-phobe" in their eyes, while I am an "imbecilic communist bastard"  

How funny to see people hanging labels on everyone who lives outside of their cage  

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    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

Offline Toad

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Have you seen this Chinese pilot video?
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2001, 01:04:00 PM »
<Edit> Delete all. I find myself drifting towards a "personal" viewpoint/argument, something I work very hard against on a BBS.

I apologize and will withdraw from this thread. <End-Edit>

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-10-2001).]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2001, 01:47:00 PM »
Toad, if it is because of my last remark - I beg your pardon. I didn't mean you, and "cage" didn't mean US.

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Offline Fatty

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« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2001, 04:05:00 PM »
Yes Dowding, however it's a small price to pay, and in the eyes of most Americans (growing each day captives are held), it's simply not worth trading with a nation that will hold our people indefinately.

The cut to the economy isn't as large as many people (especially the Chinese) would like to think.  The 80 billion is consumption, a mere 10-15 is exported, which is the portion we're looking at getting a hit from.  The freed purchasing power will be transfered (with some pain, but not all that much) to US and allied based manufacturing.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2001, 04:16:00 PM »
to the rescue !

   

" a RELIGIOUS leader can do things a government can't.." jj himself
(who else would call him a religious leader but himself)

no worries now  

Eagler
   
for the 24 held prisoner for 10 days now!

[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 04-10-2001).]
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Offline Dowding

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Have you seen this Chinese pilot video?
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2001, 05:10:00 PM »
I see your point Fatty. I can't see what choice the US is going to have if this continues for another week.

The Chinese will have to back down, it's just a matter of the Chinese leadership finding a way to save 'face' internationally and to not damage their own position within the Party. I think all the propaganda is perhaps aimed to show the people that the leadership still hates America, therefore buying time to climb-down from the crisis.

The prisoners will be free within two weeks is my bet.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

TheWobble

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« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2001, 05:32:00 PM »
Jessie Jackson....OH CHRIST!

Cant this bloated pile of toejam stay out of anything???

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2001, 08:00:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda:
Dowdning, at least you are an ordinary "US-o-phobe" in their eyes, while I am an "imbecilic communist bastard"  

I have no information as to the status of your parents marriage at the time of your birth, or now for that matter. I cannot, therefor, agree with the last term of your self description. The other two terms do seem to be appropriate based on your posts to date.

Mav    

DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline leonid

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Have you seen this Chinese pilot video?
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2001, 02:58:00 AM »
Dowding,

In the Falklands they had Gurkhas.  You don't want to mess with Gurkhas.  Make the Seals look like Nancy-Boys.

Dowding & Boroda,
Don't you guys know?  The O-Club is actually funded by Free Republic.  You'll never win, because they just keep shoveling more guys from there over here just to drown us out  

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leonid, Kompol
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"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."
ingame: Raz

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2001, 09:28:00 AM »
Maverick, the above-mentioned description was used by one man you probably know in a private correspondence with me. As for my parents - it's not your business. I may look like an idiot (at least my own opinion doesn't count), but I am not a communist, at least I don't support people who call themself "communists".

What amazes me is that many people here are looking at Chineese, Russians and other former cold-war enemies as if they still live in the 1950s.

Is HUAC still working?



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With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2001, 12:24:00 PM »
I don't think I'd want to mess with anyone from the British armed forces. They are bunch of nutters.

The reason why the SAS and SBS are so tough, is because our regular military goes through a training regime which is arguably the toughest in the world. This especially goes for the Marines and the Paras, from whom most of the SAS/SBS are drawn.

It's a shame we don't have the massive military funding the US has, otherwise we would have the best military in the world.  

The ironic thing about Toad calling me a US-o-phobe is:

1) I work for an American Multinational
2) I listen to American music
3) I wear American clothes
4) I watch American-made films
5) I watch American TV programs
6) I play an American game in which I belong to squad who are mainly Americans, and who are 100% top lads

Free Republic? I scanned through the topics there and there didn't seem to be much argument, just a stream of 'I agree and furthermore...' comments. A little sterile, if you ask me.  

Would we be welcome there Leonid?  

War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Glasses

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« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2001, 12:43:00 PM »
The Navy incident here in PR is laughable ,at least to me ,there were plenty of accounts the people there yelled duck take cover and I guess he was the unlucky bastard which didn't  react in itime and got the shrapnel up his arse. Quite funny how people make smething like that a rally point  for some other things ,I think make them as hipocrites,quite disgusting IMO.

  For the Chinese incident I belive it's  not the people's will but just the Red Bastards that run the goverment. I as an American citizen even though by birth I am considered something else, believe this was not the US's fault in the mid air incident. Now, the thing I question is were they in international waters or within Chinese airspace, if so ,they had every reason to go up and intercept the plane just that it went a tad wrong.

Wobble don't say anything  like that NAACP might go after you.

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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2001, 02:58:00 PM »
 Dowding,
 We have $60 billion a year deficit with China. It means that our people are buying $60 billions worth more from China then they buy from us. That means that money flows out of our country which means that jobs are lost in our country which means that our economy suffers and their benefits.
 If we suddenly cuth the whole trade with China, considerable amount of that $60 billions would go to purchase goods produced by our economy - creating more jobs, helping beat the recession, etc.
 The rest would go into economies of our friends - (including countries that allegedly shoot our citizens in violation of international laws, but have tact to hide it).

 Boroda,
 American government was never in a business of selling arms. If some US company broke a contract, the offended party can resort to courts to retrieve the money.
 Also, if russians decided to pay money 80 years after they declined to do so, it does not mean everybody has to honor it. When they declined their obligations, they lost their rights.
 I am sure that any agreement could be worked out despite of that.
 The interest on those loans plus on the damages for the breach of contract would be astronomical.
 Since US was not expected to hold Alaska intact after the original Lease expired in hope that USSR will someday recognise its obligations, everything in there is legally ours.
 Can you afford to pay for the infrastructure built over the last 40 years and for relocating it's citizens? Few trillion ought to cover it.
 Also, before calculating how much America stole form Russia for WWI armaments, would you like to calculate how much would the "Lend-Lease" of arms and supplies during WWII cost at market prices rather then $1? How much would it be to hire the ships and escorts required to bring the convoys to russia? Cost of lives and equipment lost doing that?
 Also, what WWI were you talking about? The one where Russia betrayed her allies (who got involved because of alliance with her!). Made separate peace and paid Germany billions in gold and gave over Ukraine with it's resources - so that Germany could continue its fight against the former allies longer? How much money and lives did that betrayal cost US?
 I see your memory is very selective. For a guy who does not support communists, you surely are thinking like one.

 Lynx,
 There is a huge difference between Vietnam and Afganistan.
 1. There was invasion of North Vietnam into South Vietnam, not the other way around. Neither US nor South Vietnamese initiated the hostilities.
 2. Every casualty of the Vietnam war was known immediately, as well as the total count. That was not the case with Afganistan.

 miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 04-11-2001).]

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2001, 04:22:00 PM »
Miko, if it's as simple as you say to create such immediate benefit to the US economy, then why wasn't it done before this crisis, why were China given most favoured trading partner status and why all the lobbying by American multinationals to open the Chinese market? It cannot be as simple as you make out. For one thing, certain sectors of the US economy would benefit, but others would be hit by an embargo - this might produce a disproportionate effect.

As for the alledged incident on Mount Longdon - the key word is alledged. It was never proved. Frankly, they were in dire straits to even be on the Flakland islands, no matter what their status. I think the current job title would be 'Defence Consultant'.

I personally reckon their were American defense advisors there, but what happened to them will probably never be known.

The US government has never sold arms? What about the CIA funded supply of Stinger missiles to the Mujhadeen (sp) in Afghanistan. The arms to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war? The supply of 'advisors' to many gulf states? The supply of arms to Israel?

The US government granted export licenses for this equipment and in the case of the Stingers, actually funded the venture.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 04-11-2001).]
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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2001, 04:47:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding:
Miko, if it's as simple as you say to create such immediate benefit to the US economy, then why wasn't it done before this crisis, why were China given most favoured trading partner status and why all the lobbying by American multinationals to open the Chinese market? It cannot be as simple as you make out.

 Because it is not that simple. There are trade agreements and organisations aimed towards opening of the trade.
 It is not considered a good gesture to restrict someone's access to your markets without a good reason - like the country in question attacking planes in international space or at least pretending that the product is dangerous (like American meat - hehe...).

 Yes, we are losing money/jobs to some countries because we adhere to agreements. A recession in US is not a good reason for us to renege on our international agreements and obligations.

 Yes, there are those selling to China and they are interested in trade.
 Yes, there are those buying from China at cheaper price because chinese can be paid less, jailed and make to work or not bother to spend money protecting people/environment. Those are also interested in more trade.
 There also people who think that opening trade with China will spread democracy.
 All those groups are lobbying for more trade with China.
 Also chinese themselves with their contribution to our presidential campaigns.

 The manufacturers who cannot compete with Chinese slave labor, workers who lose their jobs because of that and people who think that trade with Chinese communists is just helping the enemy - those lobby against trade with China.

For one thing, certain sectors of the US economy would benefit, but others would be hit by an embargo - this might produce a disproportionate effect.

 You must be slow today... Of course some would benefit and some would be hit. We have $60 billions trade deficit. That means that some already benefit and some are already hit to the tune of $60 billions in favor of those being hit. What is there to speculate?
 The only reason we could lose more then we would gain is if we were buying some strategic or high-tech stuff that we could not get any other way. That is definitely not the case.
 We are biying consumer junk and they are buying industrial equipment, infrastructure, technology, etc.

 Of course everyone could lose in the long run on the trade limitations - because of less competition and more expencive products. (US would lose less, of course because we have  larger internal market and better technology.) But in case of financing a single hostile power through trade, not losing may cost more in the long run.

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 04-11-2001).]