Child Rearing Material Recommendations.

[Seagoon]

Ok, got an email related to another thread, and thought I might as well post the answer here. The question was basically what materials do I recommend specifically on the subject of raising kids (as opposed to simply watching them as they grow up). I don't know if this will be helpful to anyone else, but hopefully it will be - rather than simply being anoying (sorry in advance Beet).

I'll caveat from the get-go that these materials assume a Christian worldview, but much of the wisdom in them will make sense even to non-Xian parents. All of them generally focus on the development and nurture of the child's heart, rather than simple behavior modification, which while it is easier, is ultimately counter-productive. As I pointed out in a sermon once, "Those of you who think simply having outwardly well-behaved children is enough, might want to consider that outwardly well-behaved children crucified Christ." So generally speaking these works would approach good behavior as a desirable by-product of a good heart, not an end in and of itself...

There's also a link on where to buy them cheap (and no, I don't get a kickback).

Books

 Age of Opportunity This book is aimed primarily at childrearing during the difficult adolescent/teen years.

Shepherding a Child's Heart This one is focused on childrearing for young kids.

 Withold Not Correction This book tackles the difficult (and unfortunately controversial) subject of discipline, both in terms of why it is so fundamental and important to character development, and how and when to go about doing it right.

DVD Resources


The Case for Kids (Seminar/DVDs) A little on the pricey side at $79, but really worth it. 16 1/2 hour seminars that discuss the family and parenting from the ground up. Lots of anecedotes and entertaining stories to keep the A.D.D. afflicted parent focused.


There are others I can think of, but I'll leave it at that for the moment unless someone has a specific issue they want more info on.


- SEAGOON

[Westy]

Here is the online cliffnotes for those fond of the "Don't Spare Dat Rod!!" philospohy.  And remember!

They crucified Jeebuz!

Don't let those bastards nail you too.


http://www.thehowdydoodyuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat











(just kidding of course.....)

[StarOfAfrica2]

I know I shouldnt laugh.  Thats so wrong.  




And yet, I cant help it.  

[moot]

Legos, lots of em.

[rpm]

Child rearing material? White pine.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Seagoon
rather than simple behavior modification, which while it is easier, is ultimately counter-productive. As I pointed out in a sermon once, "Those of you who think simply having outwardly well-behaved children is enough, might want to consider that outwardly well-behaved children crucified Christ."
- SEAGOON

I broke this up into two seperate posts as opposed to one so as not to get too far off the track of this one

Dude,
Normally I find myself on your side.
but with all due respect that was a really poor point made in that sermon IMO

At the time of Crists crusifiction Christ ment no more to the majority of the general populace then say.. David Karesh does to ours.
He was looked upon as the leader of just another cult.
It is only in hindsight that the crucifiction means more.

Yea they each had their followings.
But I doubt deep down if many in the general populace cared one way or the other if he was crucified.

Same thing with Karesh. We watched it all unfold because in reality no matter what many may say. It made for good entertainment.
Yea we all point our fingers and say oooooh look what they did.
But really deep deep down do many people REALLY care other then to be able to point a finger and say shame on you?
I doubt it. I know I dont.

also it was Christs destiny to be placed upon the cross was it not?
In which case these well behaved children were still well behaved inamuch as they were doing what God willed them to do.

On a side note The mention of these well behaved people as though they were inwardly terrible reminds me of when I was a little kid and other kids who went to strict Catholic schools telling me to "Not trust the Jews because they are the ones that are responcible for killing Jesus"

[DREDIOCK]

In any event.

I for one believe in occasionally spanking your kids.
Now let me be clear I think there is a definite difference between spanking, and abusing. A Few pops on the butt is not abuse.
beating the living daylights out of a kid is.

And you have to know your kid. What works and what wont.
And I will say that I believe that overdoing it can have negative results.
But done in moderation  combined with these "other ways" can and does achieve the desired result.
There is no set correct one size fits all way to instill discipline in your kids
No matter who tries to say so nor how often they say it.
There are some kids who would never need a hand raised to them. And a "Good talking to" is more then sufficient.
Others dont "get it" until they have received a good swat.
And yet others whom you could beat with a bullwhip and it wouldn't do an ounce of good. Yet grounding them makes all the difference.

You gotta know your kid and know what works with them

This "No spanking because there are better ways to deal with it" ideology has been around now for ohhhh I'd say about 20-25 years.
Sorry but the evidence in kids behavior over that period of time just doesn't hold up to the claims.
HS Drop out rate-up
Teenage crime- up
Violent crime among teens-up
Teenage sexual activity -UP
which leads to
Teenage pregnancy-up

Yes, these things can also be attributed to other factors such as the social excess and the decline of  traditional social and moral values including those taught by religion.
But I contend that spanking was a part of those traditional  social and moral values.

How many times have we heard people say.
"I would never have done that as a kid because I know my ol man woulda tanned my hide"

Now how many times have you heard people say "I would never have done that as a kid because my ol man would have talked to me about it"?

Now there's something to deter someone. LOL

Now that doesn't mean you have to swat your kid every time he/she does something.
I personally use all methods.
My kids know that if push comes to shove I am willing to give that swat. And more often then not that knowledge that I will is more then enough to reinforce the other methods.

Some say a Spanking will result in emotional scarring.
I say YES!

The same exact kind of emotional scarring you get the first time you try to grab a hot pot without using a potholder.

Do it once and you get punished for that mistake. But you WILL remember it the next time. And are far less likely to do it again.

Some scars are good.

Humans are violent creatures by our very nature.
Some violence is righteous.
Some isn't.

The thing is to know when and how to apply righteous violence.
And when not to

[Nash]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Some violence is righteous.
Some isn't.

The thing is to know when and how to apply righteous violence.

Rock and ROLL!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Westy
Here is the online cliffnotes for those fond of the "Don't Spare Dat Rod!!" philospohy.  And remember!

They crucified Jeebuz!

Don't let those bastards nail you too.


http://www.thehowdydoodyuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

(just kidding of course.....)

"Remember: never take watermelon from your kids. You make payments on the house, utilities, their clothes, school, and their food. You own them. If they don't like it, they can move out. If you love your kids, love them enough to beat them so that they don't grow up to be idiots. "

LMAO

"The skull thump. A quick blow usually dealt to the side or back of the head. Simply flick them in the head with your finger."

I call this the "Twack".
 I've done this. Not very painful but very effective.
Particularly effective in places like when they are acting up in church or other solemn event where your whispering to them to knock it off and be quiet 1/2 dozen times hasnt worked and you want/need them to knock it off..now.

Like I said not very painful unles you do it really hard. probably more insulting then anything. But it works.
It gets their attention.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK

This "No spanking because there are better ways to deal with it" ideology has been around now for ohhhh I'd say about 20-25 years.
Sorry but the evidence in kids behavior over that period of time just doesn't hold up to the claims.
HS Drop out rate-up
Teenage crime- up
Violent crime among teens-up
Teenage sexual activity -UP
which leads to
Teenage pregnancy-up

There's a more likely reason for all of this... Both parents are at work.

Hit your kids all you want. They're your kids.

I still say it's a cop out. I sure as hell don't hit mine. They're not perfect, but I've lost count of the number of adults that have complimented me on their politeness and respectful behavior.

[DREDIOCK]

I very rarely have had to.
the mere fact they know I will acts as a deterrent

And when I have hit them it probably wasnt even as hard as I would when playing with them. And that isnt hard at all.
the difference is in the phsycology of it.
They know when I've done it for dicipline I was serious

[moot]

Seagoon surely meant spanking when he chose the topic title.[/derail]

[Widewing]

Aside from bringing them up in a Christian home and trying to provide a respectable example, I find this helps as well.




My regards,

Widewing

[capt. apathy]

before atempting to raise a child you should first raise a dog to 3 years old who comes when you call him, sits when you say, stays where you tell him, takes a walk with out towing you down the road, doesn't bite or hump guests or crap on your floor.

if you can't pull that off you'll find yourself in way over your head with kids.

[Simaril]

I probably take a middle road -- with one simple guiding concept:

Actions have consequences

The lack of THAT concept, it seems to me, accounts for a huge portion of our cultural decline. It can explain the epidemic of whining and victimhood ("itas always someone elses fault" -- in life as in the MA), the failure of education (kids dont see the connection between studying and life outcomes), and the increases in crime/STDs/teen preganancy, etc.

In my job I've seen the inner workings of a lot of families, and the outcomes of a lot of parenting styles -- and its broadened my attitudes, cause a lot of different things work. The one thing all the effective styles seem to have in common is the  predictable expectation that if the kid does X, the outcdome will be Y. Consistantly. Every time.  

If you use time outs, they can work. If you use withdrawing/earning privileges, that can work. If you use rewards for reaching behavior goals, that can work. Its just gotta be done consistantly -- and proportionately.

Proportionality is vital, to give the kid a sense of not just predictability, but also justice. For Christians, justice is a feature of God's very character; as parents, we ahve to remember that for concrete thinking children WE are their first image of the nature of God. (He doesnt call himself Father without deliberate intention.) As a father, if I'm angry, vengeful, and unpredictable -- I'm giving my kids a distorted image of the God I want to serve, and they may carry that for life.

Corporal punishment (not corporal the rank, but corporal referring to the body, from "corpus") can work, but it has some dangers. First, for many parents it carries a temptation to both punish the kid's behavior AND to let some parental frustrations express themselves, resulting in whacks out of proportion to the offense. THose who spank should NEVER do so until the parent has calmed enough to have full control. Second, if its the only bullet in your gun, it is very hard to keep the punishment proportional to minor problems that none the less require correction.

In the end, the inner attitudes are more important for life than a given behavior -- and its appropriate to discipline those too. If you only focus on the action, you can end up with an outwardly obediant kid whose heart is prone to rebellion, or to an Enron type "morality" -- its wrong when you get caught, its ok if you get away with it.

And, our attitudes toward our own behavior are important. When I lose my temper, I apologize for my actions, adn hold myself accountable to my family. No doubel standard, because kids (esp teens) have hypocrisy radar that can invalidate all your word in a flash/.




My kids are 14 and 16. We primarily used the action/consequence method, focusing on losing desired privileges for misbehavior. One child had a tendency towards mouthing off that that kid ran a string of "lost soda till you can be civil for a week" out into the months. We used some spanking, but required it very rarely. As they grew up, we shifted the privileges involved to keep them relevant. In the early teen years, one kid had problems cooperating with school stuff -- and after discussing the issue, parents and the kid wrote up a "contract" with expectations and outcomes we both found reasonable. The problem resolved.

This approach -- and the built in emphasis on fairness, inward attitudes, and communication -- has reaped great rewards for us.   My teens have had essentially none of the rebellion issues that are supposed to be part of the age. My wife and daughter are simply best friends, and can talk about anything. When the oldest had questions about her faith, she felt comfortable coming to me and asking "how do you know there's a God, and what about all this...." We could discuss those issues -- that some believing parents find threatening or scary -- straight up, and she came to her own decisions based on what she saw as just and true. Both kids come to talk about anything, from world events to what a particular cuss word means.





Ours obviuosly isnt the only way, but its based on solid (and for those who care -- Biblical)  principles. And it worked great for us.