Any "Eric Hartmann" in AH ?

[Kolibri]

First his name was Erich Hartmann and not Eric.

He went donw 3 times, the first crash was on his very first flight as a wingman of the "Rottenfuehrer". He got some Parts of an IL2 into his cockpit and had to land behind enemy lines.

The last crash he got rescued by his mechanic behind enemy lines.

As far as i know he never flew the G14. His favorite plane was the G6 and he kept it till the end of war.

For all who want to know more read the book "Jagdgeschwader 52" Osprey publishing. John Weal wrote the book.

Jagdgeschwader 52 got 32 Centurions. Gerhard Barkhorn got 301 Kills for example.

You can't compare this way of game with reallity. Remember that Jagdgeschwader 52 had only a few raids on american bomber. I find my most death in the swarm of 50cals of B17's, B24's and Lancs.

And at least the never flew alone. They allways had a wingman keeping their six clean.

So long

NghtFire

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Krusty
I thought most of the "leading aces" died off long before the Ki84 came out?? They were more of the zero-flying kind, I think.

It's probably impossible to determine which pilot scored the highest number of victories in the Ki-84. This is largely due to the massive Japanese overclaiming common during the last year of the war by inexperienced pilots. Many pilots who did score well did not survive the war.

My regards,

Widewing

[Bruno]

Hartmann served briefly as Gruppenkommandeure of I./JG53 (acting, 2.45 - 14.2.45) and flew a G-14.

Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen I./JG53

I./JG52 (Hartmann was Gruppenkommandeure of I./JG52 1.2.45 - 8.5.45) also flew G-14s

Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen I./JG52

I am sure a goggle search would turn up some images. However, be advised that a G-14 and a late G-6 look allot a like and not a lot of folks can not tell them apart. After all a G-14 is just a G-6 + MW-50.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by ghi
Did someone ever try to make 352 kills in 109s only without getting killed?

What about  a "Eric Hartmann" competition?!!   let's say 352 kills/tour in me109s without death, but can die in any other planes,
(3-4 ditch/bail alowed, in me109s)

Maybe HTC would sponsor the competition with 2000-3000 (gvs) perks

Impossible. I am playing for a kill streak at the start of each months, and must say it is getting more and more hard with time. Random kills generators aka puff acks are sooner or later getting kill on you when you flying over 3k at their range. When Fishu got his 300+ kills no death in tour, it were no flaks, manned acks, puffed acks, no la7s, tempests, 262s, 5'' etc, etc, etc.

I even can't get to my best kill streak of 93, which was few years ago, normally I die before 40 kills.

[gofaster]

Keep in mind that Hartmann and Marseilles tallied up their kills against inferior aircraft such as the Hurri Mk I, P-40C, LaGG-3, and Il-2.  Hartmann did manage to bag 5 Mustangs, but I don't know the particular model.

[Bruno]

Originally posted by gofaster
Keep in mind that Hartmann and Marseilles tallied up their kills against inferior aircraft such as the Hurri Mk I, P-40C, LaGG-3, and Il-2.  Hartmann did manage to bag 5 Mustangs, but I don't know the particular model.

Nonsense...

Look up both their lists of kill claims...

[JB42]

Does it matter what aircraft so much? Just being able to hit an airplane while flying an airplane warrents my respect, no matter who the pilot is.

[Morpheus]

If you do get to the k/d of E Hartman it would be cool if only those guys who did it to get the plane skin.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by 1K3
The Army had some of the best pilots too, but not well publisized:cry And they got most of their kills in China, flying bi-plane A5Ms and Ki-43s.

The army did not fly A5Ms, those were navy fighters.  None of the A5M, Ki-27 or Ki-43 were biplanes.  The Ki-27 and A5M did have fixed landing gear though.

The highest scoring IJAAF pilots got most of their kills in Ki-43s.  Most of those pilots did not live to see the Ki-84's introduction, but some did.  It is very hard to tell what their actual scores were due to several failings the Japanese had in that regards.  1) they claimed and awarded kills willy nilly without any significant effort to verify the kill and 2) they awarded kills to the unit, not to the individual pilot.

[lasersailor184]

Wasn't Hartmann shot down twice in the same day?

Or am I thinking of someone else?

[Elfie]

According to what Erich Hartmann told the authors of The Blond Knight of Germany, he flew the 109G-7, G-10, G-14, G-16 and K-4 models in combat.

Keep in mind that Hartmann and Marseilles tallied up their kills against inferior aircraft such as the Hurri Mk I, P-40C, LaGG-3, and Il-2. Hartmann did manage to bag 5 Mustangs, but I don't know the particular model.

Rubbish.....Hartmann shot many Yaks, Airacobras and La-5's along with some La-7's.

He went donw 3 times, the first crash was on his very first flight as a wingman of the "Rottenfuehrer". He got some Parts of an IL2 into his cockpit and had to land behind enemy lines.

His first crash landing was a result of him losing sight of his flight leader, then mistaking his flight leader for an enemy aircraft and running in fear until his 109 ran out of gas and he was forced to crash land his plane. You are thinking of his second crash landing I believe

The last crash he got rescued by his mechanic behind enemy lines.

Not entirely accurate, his mechanic DID go looking for Erich, but didnt find him. Erich made it back to his own lines after being captured and subsequently escaping by feigning serious internal injuries.

All this as it was told to Raymond F. Toliver and Trevor J. Constable by Erich Hartmann himself.

[JB42]

Galland got shot down twice in one day, both times by Spitfires.

[Bruno]

Hartmann only ever 'claimed' 1 Mustangs on 24.6.1944

325 FG lost two Mustangs on this date:

318 FS "42" Joseph W. Harper MIA 42-103599
319 FS "75" Howard F. Welch MIA 42-103552

A pilot of SG2 (name not handy) also claimed a P-51 on this date. These 2 claims were roughly 30 min apart.

Hartmann is credited with another P-51 shot down between 16.3.45 and 10.4.45. but the source of this 'credit' is unknown to me.

fyi, If you look through Hartmann's kill claim list you will see a whole lot of claims for LaGG's. This doesn't mean LaGG 3s.  As can be seen by many of claims by other JG52 pilots from about March '43 they didn't make any real effort to accurately identify the type of plane they shot down,  almost every Soviet  fighter was simply referred to as "LaGG". They also referred to La-5 and La-7s as LaGG's. Between March '43 and August '44 III./JG 52 claimed around 900 "LaGG's", about  250 P-39s and only around 20 Yaks of various variants. They also claimed 21 Spitfires, 1 more then their Yak claims.

So if the the claim that Hartmann only shot down obsolete LaGG 3s is based on their liberal use of the term LaGG in id'ing Soviet fighters then its clearly incorrect. Also, Hartmann only claimed 15 Il-2s.

Hartmann was forced ditch 14 times, he never baled out.

As for Hans-Joachim Marseille his kill claims include a lot of Hurri Is and P40-Cs but he claimed the by far majority of these while flying Emils and F-2s. He mostly fought alone with his wing staying out and away. It wasn't the aircraft that got Marseille his kills, it was his shooting skill and aggressiveness.

I can list his kill claims if you like.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Widewing
It's probably impossible to determine which pilot scored the highest number of victories in the Ki-84. This is largely due to the massive Japanese overclaiming common during the last year of the war by inexperienced pilots. Many pilots who did score well did not survive the war.

My regards,

Widewing

 Throw out a rough guess, I need a goal to shoot for:D ( something way under 300 though)

[wetrat]

Originally posted by Bruno

Hartmann was forced ditch 14 times, he never baled out.

Hartmann DID bail out. He was attacked by a group of Mustangs (5 or so) and weaved his 109 as best he could to keep himself from getting filled with bullets, then bailed out. Read "the Blonde Knight of Germany"