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Author Topic: Abortion and the Death Penalty  (Read 3008 times)

Offline Sandman

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #165 on: October 31, 2005, 11:41:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin

The reason that abortion stirs such controversy is because the percentage of the population is not a huge majority in favor of either direction.  Many of us reside in the middle ground.


We're just wishy washy cowards... or so I'm told.
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Offline bozon

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #166 on: October 31, 2005, 11:57:02 AM »
let the woman decide.
There are too many damn people on this planet as it is. Save us another unwanted one.
If we colonize mars, then make her carry it.

Bozon
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Offline lazs2

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #167 on: October 31, 2005, 03:00:43 PM »
six.. holden explained it.   It is not immoral to drink.   It is immoral to drink till you can barely function and then get into a car and hurt someone.

I am not sure that it is immoral to destroy an embryo but I feel it is immoral to destroy a viable human being who is innocent and causing no threat to anyone.

to simply say that if you can't see it then it's not a human is wishy washy in the extreme.   No no... that is just fat or a tumor...  It doesn't look like a person to me....

cowardly?  yeah... cowardly pretty much describes it.

If we are overcrowded and need to thin the population then we could start with the prisons.   Legal firms could be thinned considerably as could polititions.

lazs
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Offline Sixpence

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #168 on: October 31, 2005, 03:13:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
six.. holden explained it.   It is not immoral to drink.   It is immoral to drink till you can barely function and then get into a car and hurt someone.

I am not sure that it is immoral to destroy an embryo but I feel it is immoral to destroy a viable human being who is innocent and causing no threat to anyone.

to simply say that if you can't see it then it's not a human is wishy washy in the extreme.   No no... that is just fat or a tumor...  It doesn't look like a person to me....

cowardly?  yeah... cowardly pretty much describes it.

If we are overcrowded and need to thin the population then we could start with the prisons.   Legal firms could be thinned considerably as could polititions.

lazs


Well, then we agree that the more you drink, the less morals you have?

There is a group here that, on one hand says that it is the murder of a fetus and it is wrong, then on the other hand says it is ok to murder a fetus in another situation. If you are going to argue that it is the murder of an innocent fetus, how can you say it is ok to murder a fetus in the same sentence? Talk about walking the fence huh?

As you state many times lazs, any partial ban leads to more bans. Like if you ban assault rifles, then they try to ban more and more guns til you can no longer choose to own a gun
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Offline lazs2

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #169 on: November 01, 2005, 08:45:03 AM »
six.. are you being intentionaly dense?

once you start drinking you can either drink respossibly or not.  the way you act is the moral or imoral part of it.  If you kill or injure someone I do not believe that drinking is a good excuse.   millions of people drink every day in a very moral way.

On abortion...  a fetus to me is the baby that can't survive outside the mothers womb... it is a viable human after that.    It is not a "ban" to tell people that they can't kill innocent and viable human beings for no good reason.

get it?  

lazs
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Offline Sandman

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #170 on: November 01, 2005, 09:16:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
On abortion...  a fetus to me is the baby that can't survive outside the mothers womb... it is a viable human after that.    It is not a "ban" to tell people that they can't kill innocent and viable human beings for no good reason.

get it?  

lazs


I might be wrong, but I suspect that they don't call the procedure an abortion after the fetus is viable. At this point, I think it's a cesarean section.
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Offline Torque

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #171 on: November 01, 2005, 10:33:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

On abortion...  a fetus to me is the baby that can't survive outside the mothers womb... it is a viable human after that.    It is not a "ban" to tell people that they can't kill innocent and viable human beings for no good reason.
   
lazs


i believe the stats are something like 90% are preformed before the first 16 weeks, only 1% are after 20 weeks.

fetus viability starts around 24-28 weeks.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #172 on: November 01, 2005, 12:58:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I might be wrong, but I suspect that they don't call the procedure an abortion after the fetus is viable. At this point, I think it's a cesarean section.


Ceasarian section is a surgical procedure opening the abdomen to give birth bypassing a natural vaginal birth.  

Partial Birth Abortion is a procedure pretty much specific to late term pregnancy, in the secondand third trimesters after viability is achieved.

Viability is technology specific.  A 24 week old fetus would not be viable without some extraordinary neo-natal care.
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Offline Sandman

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #173 on: November 01, 2005, 02:00:49 PM »
In other words, viability is not achieved during the 2nd Trimester.

AFAICT, there aren't any doctors that will perform a D&X on a viable, healthy fetus. Anyone have any facts to the contrary?
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sand

Offline Sixpence

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #174 on: November 01, 2005, 02:05:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

six.. are you being intentionaly dense?

once you start drinking you can either drink respossibly or not.  the way you act is the moral or imoral part of it.  If you kill or injure someone I do not believe that drinking is a good excuse.   millions of people drink every day in a very moral way.

But millions drink in an immoral way, and have immoral sex leading to unwanted pregnancy, leading to abortion. We need to stop all this immorality!!
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"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

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Offline Hangtime

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #175 on: November 01, 2005, 02:17:49 PM »
No, 'we' as in government don't.

Yes, 'we' as in individuals need to take personal responsibility for our personal actions. If you present me with a moral dillema that affects my life, expect me to do something about it. I assure you I will neither wish or require any assistance from government in solving the issue of your responsibility for it..
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Offline lazs2

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #176 on: November 01, 2005, 02:19:28 PM »
six.... how do you drink in an immoral way other than to do it to the point that you cause problems for others and where do you get that sex is immoral?  There is nothing immoral about sex between consenting sane adults in my book.

torque... if those numbers are true then I only have a problem with... what did you say?  1% of the abortions that are performed on viable human beings.  

lazs
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Offline Torque

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #177 on: November 01, 2005, 02:21:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin


Viability is technology specific.  A 24 week old fetus would not be viable without some extraordinary neo-natal care.


that is the legal heathen threshold iirc depending on your govt.

post natal care, a newborn's viability is achieved when it moves out and gets a job.
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Offline lazs2

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Abortion and the Death Penalty
« Reply #178 on: November 01, 2005, 02:37:15 PM »
the girls who throw their newborns in the dumpster are proving that the little parasite couldn't survive on it's own and.... exercising their right to choose.

lazs
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #179 on: November 01, 2005, 03:33:21 PM »
Nice straw man.


Many states have laws that allow a woman to freely and legally abandon their newborn children at certain designated areas. Anyone that puts one in a dumpster probably isn't quite right in the head.
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