Author Topic: The Ugly American  (Read 3193 times)

Offline Hangtime

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The Ugly American
« on: August 02, 2000, 12:23:00 AM »
Since Toads thread got losy in abortion..

 
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The ugly Americans I *DO* hate are those who claim that their country is the birthplace of democracy, the only free place in the world and that they are the knights who protect democracy everywhere. That's just ignorant, and quite insulting to everyone else.

Well now. Since you insist. I'm glad to have you hate me; cause I'm the classic ugly American by your definition.

So; tell us StSanta. What would your life be like in Denmark right now had we not entered the War; and YES; made the world safe for democracy??

You'd either be goose steppin or peelin turnips for the Boris in a Siberian labor camp; boyo. Or possibly ashes in an oven. I assure you; at this moment, thats a fact that has us both dissapointed.

Like it or not; had America not come to fight the european war, and not shed our blood for western europe's freedom; your home would have a Russian sittin in it...

Or is that what this is REALLY about?

Yer insulted? Good.

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Hangtime

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The Ugly American
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2000, 12:32:00 AM »
Damn.. come to think of it.. I forgot all about the Danish airlift to Berlin during the cold war. Oh yeah; the 258 Danes that died in Lebanon.. or the Danish Rangers that fell in Somalia... oh yeah; then there's those Danish peace-keepers in Croatia...

LOL

Sure glad Denmark is the bastion of freedom... no wait; ain't they the HAM guys; pork packers of the free world?

Yha.. thats right. Fine canned ham yah got there Santa.

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Staga

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The Ugly American
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2000, 01:07:00 AM »
Are these ones your heroes too ?
Maybe that ground hugging pilot in Italy ?

 http://faculty.rmwc.edu/slockhart/papers/Omoto/timeokhtm..htm
 http://nypostonline.com/news/22287.htm

All rapers should have abullet in their head.

 
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Yer insulted? Good.


Nath-BDP

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The Ugly American
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2000, 01:11:00 AM »
The only reason America was in Europe was to save as much as it could from the USSR, which did most of the work in the ETO.

Craven

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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2000, 02:33:00 AM »
I am a history teacher and can assure the person that the Solviet Union could not have beaten Hitler without the Americans.  I f it wasn't for USA entering war Russia would have probably went the way of the other nations.  Anyone hear of Lend Lease ?  Without American food, dollars, planes, ships, tanks, guns,  there would have been no Solviet Union.  And yes America is the policeman of the world, someone has to do it.  France ? Not hardly Denmark ? I think not.  You may not like it but without the USA alot of the people who love to hate us would be wishing we were still around.  God Bless all the countries that fought Hitler but God Bless the USA for beating him.  And before you go blowing Stalin's horn remember how many Jews, poles, gypsys, and others he killed.  Not to mention his own people.  He was every bit as bad as Hitler.  Just the old saying " My enimie's enemy is my friend " came into play before Stalin had a chance to do it to him.

Offline Staga

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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2000, 04:49:00 AM »
Little more fuel        

IMHO without help from Germany (food, panzers, planes, supplies and German support unit "Kuhlmey" with Stukas and 190's) Finland would be occupied by Russians.
Of course you knew that already        

There were U.S citizens who gave some money to help Finland in winterwar 1939<S for those> but in continuationwar American "Lend&lease" planes attacked in Finland.
Nice move to help Soviet Union to achieve more land in Europe        

So Hang, did your country help to keep Finland independent? IMO answer is No.
I'm really glad Germans did.
(cold weather here, Need some flames         )


"Nobody respects a country with a poor army, but everybody respects a country with a good army. I raise my toast to the Finnish Army."

J. Stalin 1948

Added funny pic      

 
Strange... img sometimes appears, sometimes not ?

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 08-02-2000).]

Nath-BDP

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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2000, 06:06:00 AM »
lol craven... you must be joking?

By July of 43 before the US did anything of any significance to Germany the Germans were already being routed back to Poland and the Ukraine... the USSR was a JUGGERNAUT, Germany could not have faced 10:1 odds in infantry and superiority in numbers of equipment.

As for American lend-lease... gemme a break... Russia got all the crap the US didn't find usefull. Perhaps the P39 was OK but the Luftwaffe still owned the air in the east untill the closing stages of the war.

Go look at the number of causalties the USSR suffered during WW2... 'nuff said.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 08-02-2000).]

Offline StSanta

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The Ugly American
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2000, 07:12:00 AM »
Heheheh, I'll bite. The Gods know I do not fear confrontations  .

Hangtime, to start with, I cannot really believe you think democracy is an American invention. If you do, I hope they invite you to the Jerry Springer show, alongside with the nazi who slept with his Jewish transvestite brother, because that'd be your intellectual class.

What would life in Denmark be like? Well, the sequence of events that were necessary to bring me here would not have happened. Another sperm would have fertilized another egg, and someone else would know. In other words, I cannot know, and I don't care to speculate in this area when I have no  substantiated evidence to anything. Maybe I would been part of Hitler's master race; I am blonde, blue eyed and generally very superior looking. Or maybe I would be just another person under communist rule; a communist rule that would be much much stronger than what it turned out to be in Real Life(tm).

<tongue in cheek>
Or, even better, I'd be placed in the cockpit of a MiG 29 and blast True American Patriots like yourself to hell, and laugh doing so.
 

So, we will never know, and all you can do is speculate. This will just lead to counterclaims and is quite unproductive.

 
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Like it or not; had America not come to fight the european war, and not shed our blood for western europe's freedom; your home would have a Russian sittin in it...
More like a German. If America hand't intervened, Germany would probably been able to take the Soviet Union as well or at least have avoided a two front war. And, since the Germans at the time considered the Scandinavians part of the Aryan race, I wouldn't be too worried. I'd probably have a handful of southern Europeans as slaves, starting with RAM's sisters. Or captured American spies.

Geesh Hangtime, you *really* like to selectively read posts.  Listen to me for one second here; if I was to come screaming *every time* the word democracy was mentioned "we invented it, we defend it, we are free and you are not nyah nyah nyah", you'd be annoyed after a bit. If I then continued with "we saved your bellybutton during WWII!" and you have a thinking mind, you'd start to be irritated. We who? Have you done so Hangtime? Did you fight the Germans? No? Your parents did? Ah, so you always claim credit for the work of others?
If, then, I chose to selectively forget about some parts of history, you'd start to be pissed and use the .squelch command of real life.

Thanks America for stabilizing southern America. God bless CIA intervention there, in defence of freedom and democracy.

My country, a little strip of not very fertile land placed on the northern hemisphere favourably close to the Gulf stream, is a nice one. It has values worth defending. But when it all comes down to it, it's just a piece of land and then someone has put arbitrary lines on a piece of paper declaring that all those on one side of the line are Danes, and the other Germans, Swedes or Norwegians. A great thinker once said "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" and I am inclined to agree - events in Europe from Alexander the Great to WWI, WWII and the situation on the Balkans have highlighted this truth.

Values, I'll defend. Values are without borders. As much as we disagree, I'd be the first to help defend your rights to disagree with me. But to defend some stupid piece of land because it has been labelled a specific way is foolish. To praise people I do not know who just by chance happen to be born within some lines on a map is foolish, unless it is evident that they've collectively and intentionally done something worth admiring. Even then, I would not hesitate to bring out the bad sides. I mean, the Danes have had a violent past; the Viking era wasn't precisely peaceful, and Denmark has spent more than 142 years at war with Sweden. Not to mention the feudal unfair system that used to be in place. Or currently the social democrats and their evilness  

In other words, Hangtime, the ugly American I hate is the ignorant one, who selectively glorifies some parts of the action of his lines-on-the-map place, but utterly forget about others.

I've won the European Championship in soccer in 1992.

My toejamhouse is gonna outlast yer country, Hangtime, and do it with more glory.

This IS a flame thread, no? <|

But, to smooth things out; the US has come a long way. From a humble start of European trash and rejects, people who couldn't hack it "back home" <G, D, R>, it is now the most powerful nation this planet has ever seen, economically, politically and in the military sense. Fools would argue otherwise.

It's just not the moral beacon of light it claims to be, there's more work to be done in this area. Doing good, aye, but doing best, no.

To finish off this long post (Badger, your Badgerism is spreading  ) I'll say that I have no animosity towards the US or Americans. On the contrary, the vast majority of Americans I've met have been very friendly, agreeable decent people who know how to drink beer and have a good time. A bit naeive at times, with a tendency to look at their own nation through the eyes of patriots, but that's just cute as long as it is not taken too far.  . Americans are sort of like big cuddly bears with huge rams; cute and nice when passive, but better run when hungry or pissed. My America bashing is only intended to tease and tickle, not enrage.

Eat that, American opportunist high altitude dweebs.
<S!>

Offline Apache

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The Ugly American
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2000, 07:31:00 AM »
quote StSanta: Thanks America for stabilizing southern America. God bless CIA intervention there, in defence of freedom and democracy.

Would you expand on this statement please?

Nath-BDP

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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2000, 07:39:00 AM »
Wroooooong... germany could have never taken the USSR on alone.

Offline Naso

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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2000, 07:48:00 AM »
 
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Originally posted by Apache:
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quote StSanta: Thanks America for stabilizing southern America. God bless CIA intervention there, in defence of freedom and democracy.

Would you expand on this statement please?[/b]

C'mon, StSanta answer this.  

Now i am having fun, this flame is very interesting.  

And please, dont forget Philippines and Mexico (1800-1910, i think).

Offline Toad

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The Ugly American
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2000, 08:07:00 AM »
 
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Since Toads thread got losy in abortion..

Yeah, but you GOTTA admit that was a way-cool thread title, even if I borrowed it from Winston!

I am enjoying this one fairly well, though. There are some amazing points of view out there, aren't there?

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline blur

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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2000, 08:25:00 AM »
The three filthiest words in any language are: Duty, Honor and Country.

<tosses another duraflame on the fire>

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2000, 08:38:00 AM »
LOL.. "scandaniavia"

"Aryan Master Race"

Tell me.. whats yer world contribution? What has yer pissant little pile of icecubes contributed to world peace and democracy in the past 100 years?

I see yer hands out.. odd; you recieved American money and aid; free grants, assistance from the IMF. What have you freeloaders given us?

Ungrateful louts.

A little history lesson. In 1776 there were NO functioning democracys in the world. Not one. Look around now. Who's responsible for THAT? They model those democracys on Denmark or Finland?

Riiiight.  Send me another canned ham.


Hang
 

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline StSanta

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The Ugly American
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2000, 08:41:00 AM »
 
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C'mon, StSanta answer this.

Aw, c'mon guys! 50% of all Americans I've talked to know what I am talking about. South America? Democractically elected president who sort of ruined his countris economy with his politics?

The American containment policy aimed at containing communism, especially in US back yard?

You know about this  .

To be honest, I recall only general things about it, but I guess I could dig up my old school books and find them  .

Not that I would want to do that, since I am not a fan of studies while on a vacation  

I know that the American opportunists were bad, bad boys.  

Probably attacked from 30k, too.


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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"