Author Topic: Life sentence for self-defense?  (Read 3068 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« on: August 02, 2000, 10:46:00 AM »
You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with  fear, you hear muffled whispers. At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.                  With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it.

In the darkness, you make out two shadows. One holds a weapon--it looks like a crowbar.                  When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire. The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble. In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the                  few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless.Yours was never registered.

Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter. "What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask. "Only ten-to-twelve years," he replies, as if that's nothing. "Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven." The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choir boys. Their friends and                  relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them. Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times. But the next day's headline says it all:

"Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die."

The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters.

As the days wear on, the story takes wings. The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero. Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win.

The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District
Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

A few months later, you go to trial. The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted. When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you.Prosecutors paint a                  picture of you as a mean, vengeful man.

It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges. The judge sentences you to life in prison.

                  This case really happened
                  ***********************************
                  > > > On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk,
                  > > > England, killed one
                  > > > burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he
                  > > > was convicted and is now
                  > > > serving a life term.
                  > > >
                  > > > How did it become a crime to defend one's own life
                  > > > in the once-great
                  > > > British Empire?
                  > > >
                  > > > It started with the Pistols Act of 1903. This
                  > > > seemingly reasonable law
                  > > > forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and
                  > > > established that handgun
                  > > > sales were to be made only to those who had a
                  > > > license. The Firearms Act of
                  > > > 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns
                  > > > but all firearms
                  > > > except shotguns.
                  > > > Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the
                  > > > carrying of all shotguns.
                  > > >
                  > > > Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in
                  > > > earnest after the
                  > > > Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a
                  > > > mentally disturbed man
                  > > > with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets
                  > > > shooting everyone he
                  > > > saw. When the smoke cleared,
                  > > > 17 people were dead.
                  > > >
                  > > > The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty
                  > > > years of "gun control",
                  > > > demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of
                  > > > all privately owned
                  > > > handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a
                  > > > rifle.)
                  > > >
                  > > > Nine years later, at Dunblane, Scotland, Thomas
                  > > > Hamilton used a
                  > > > semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a
                  > > > teacher at a public school.
                  > > >
                  > > > For many years, the media had portrayed all gun
                  > > > owners as mentally
                  > > > unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a
                  > > > real kook with which to
                  > > > beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week
                  > > > after week, the media
                  > > > gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a
                  > > > total ban on all handguns.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the
                  > > > fate of the few
                  > > > sidearms still owned by private citizens.
                  > > >
                  > > > During the years in which the British government
                  > > > incrementally took away
                  > > > most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the
                  > > > right to armed
                  > > > self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.
                  > > > Authorities refused to grant
                  > > > gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming
                  > > > that self-defense was
                  > > > no longer considered a reason to own a gun.
                  > > > Citizens who shot burglars or
                  > > > robbers or rapists were charged while the real
                  > > > criminals were
                  > > > released. Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a
                  > > > police spokesman was quoted
                  > > > as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into
                  > > > their own hands."
                  > > >
                  > > > All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous
                  > > > times, and several
                  > > > elderly people were severely injured in beatings by
                  > > > young thugs who had no
                  > > > fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a
                  > > > collector of antiques, had
                  > > > seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by
                  > > > burglars.
                  > > >
                  > > > When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned
                  > > > handguns were given
                  > > > three months to turn them over to local authorities.
                  > > > Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the
                  > > > law. The few who
                  > > > didn't were visited by police and threatened with
                  > > > ten-year prison sentences
                  > > > if they didn't comply.
                  > > >
                  > > > Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly
                  > > > 200,000 handguns from private
                  > > > citizens.
                  > > >
                  > > > How did the authorities know who had handguns?
                  > > >
                  > > > The guns had been registered and licensed. Kinda
                  > > > like cars.

                  Can America be far behind?

------------------
Ripsnort(-rip1-)
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I spare no class or cult or  creed,
My course is endless through the year.
I bow all heads and break all hearts,
All owe homage-I am Fear.

-------------General Patton

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-02-2000).]

Offline Hangtime

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2000, 11:15:00 AM »
O Club. I'm having fun with rants over here.  

Yha.. it's a problem; England and here now too. I'm of the opinion that what keeps our government in line is the fact that our citizens represent it's biggest threat. Politicians run the risk of a gunsights crosshairs on his forehead if he threatens our civil liberties.

Unfortunatly; a whole buncha crazies are toolin around out there with the same weapons. I currently don't own a weapon; but should the treehuggers get a grip on our right to bear arms, I sure as hell will.  

Hang

[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 08-02-2000).]
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Hamish

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2000, 12:02:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:

                  > > > Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly
                  > > > 200,000 handguns from private
                  > > > citizens.
                  > > >
                  > > > How did the authorities know who had handguns?
                  > > >
                  > > > The guns had been registered and licensed. Kinda
                  > > > like cars.

                  Can America be far behind?


The day citizens of this country are not allowed to "bear arms" is the day we go from being "citizens" to "sitting ducks"

my $.02

Hamish

Offline Naso

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2000, 12:12:00 PM »
What What What ????

mr. Rip and mr. Hang looking in other's house??  

Was'nt you saying: "you europeans dont understand us, we are different, look in your house and leave us alone" ???  

I wish to know if you really believe you can make a revolution, you are quite different from your ancestors (liberty bell, where are you?).  

Killing other people is not freedom.  

Offline Ripsnort

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2000, 12:22:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Naso:

Killing other people is not freedom.  

No, its not, but its a ways to the means of freedom.  


Offline Swager

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2000, 02:08:00 PM »
Being killed by a criminal is not freedom either.
Rock:  Ya see that Ensign, lighting the cigarette?
Powell: Yes Rock.
Rock: Well that's where I got it, he's my son.
Powell: Really Rock, well I'd like to meet him.
Rock:  No ya wouldn't.

Offline RAM

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2000, 02:14:00 PM »
MOrale of the story...

never NEVER trust a lawyer.

unless he has a good $ reward if he gets you out of prison, dont trust them.

BTW its a sad story,but its not the first time I hear something like that...

Justice many times dont work as intended...

In fact, Justice sometimes REALLY SUCKS!
 


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-02-2000).]

Offline Toad

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2000, 02:27:00 PM »
Lately Chesty Hesty has been pointing out that it is the Second Amendment that guarantees the First.

I'm sure someone said it before him, though.

I'd go further and say that it guarantees all the amendments and the Constitution as well.

Killing other people is indeed not Freedom.

Maintaining the capability to STOP PEOPLE FROM KILLING YOU is, IMHO, a very basic part of freedom.

I wonder how many victims of state-sponsored terror and genocide down through the history of the world were wishing they were holding something a little more potent than a forlorn hope that "this must be a mistake" when the bell tolled for them.

Some things, to me, are in fact worth fighting for....and against.

 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline StSanta

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2000, 02:33:00 PM »
Well, gents.

All I can say: nice to live in a country where the likelihood of being killed by a burglar or shot by an unknown is as large as being hit in the head by a pink meteor  .

Glad I don't need guns to defend myself here  .

Heheheee

American opportunists need guns though; never know then the opportunity to use it arises.



------------------
StSanta
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Offline Ripsnort

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2000, 02:46:00 PM »
Daff, (whos from UK and probably more familiar with this case) said one (maybe both?) assailants were shot in the back.  Okay, manslaughter in my court...however, what the hell were those two doing in the mans house with a crowbar at 2am?  I'm certain they meant no harm to the occupant...  .

Equilizer: Old man with shotgun equals 2 young men with crowbar.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-02-2000).]

Offline Rooster

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2000, 03:15:00 PM »
Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

And at what point did a Euro Trash talking child become an expert on American politics and social dynamics? Sounds like a bored opportunist looking for easy shots at complicated issues.

Offline skernsk

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2000, 03:15:00 PM »
Well in Canada we have to deal with somethng called Bill 11.

This means that ALL firearms must be registered in Canada.  As it is now owning a handgun in Canada is a pain in the prettythang!!  I am not a gun owner and I am not a hunter, but i agree with their main argument.

"How many crimes are going to be committed with longarms?"  
"How many criminals are going to register their illegal firearms?"
"Why should I register my antique that never leaves the gunrack?"

There are a ton of arguments on both sides.....but registering a firearm does nothing to limit the lethality of the weapon!!
If you want to make a difference on the crimereate........put the bastard away and throw away the key!!  And if you are sentenced to 10 years ---- you serve 10 years!!
How many times do you read about a case where its the 3rd, 4th or 5th offense?? If the sentence fits the crime a criminal won't live long enough to commit 5 offenses!

Sorry about the rant


------------------
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Skernsk
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Offline Waxer

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2000, 04:06:00 PM »
He shoulda used a katana.

Offline BagPiper

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2000, 04:29:00 PM »
Heh Skernks, my father, being an x-president of the Canadian Police association and 30 year vet hates bill 11.  The only firearm he has is his service issue, but I'm a collector and competer, so I've got a bit more radical view than him, but he agree on those main issues you pointed out.

Here's the squeak of it.  Many older people/farmers will not want to register their firearms, for many ornary reasons.  Say their home is buglarized, and all the weapons stolen.  In the past, first thing they would report to the police as being stolen was probably their guns.  Now, since their guns won't be "legal", they won't report them stolen, and VOILA! Even more illegal guns hit the street.  THANKS Alan Rock you diddlying moron!  Good work.

Most of my firearms are already restricted since they are pistols/assualt style rifles, and I only have to register my .22 rifles I think.  But get this- they had a computer crash when transfering restricted weapons info into this "new" system and lost a lot of data, and the hard copy green cards have been "misplaced".   That is why when you apply for the new FAL license they want you to "re register" your current pistols/assualites.  Cute huh?  I called up the 1-800 # and said I'd lost my green cards and didnt know my barrel lengths for the new forms...they couldn't even tell me what I currently had registered in the system.  What a wasted of their and MY money.  

The only way we're going to prevent gun crimes in Canada is too stiffen penalties, not add new laws to the already law-abiding.  I understand many gun critics are well intentioned, but take it from me - I've run and owned my share of illegal firearms in my misplaced youth - it's easy as hell to get anything you want off the street where I live...If they can fix THAT, crime will drop.

[This message has been edited by BagPiper (edited 08-02-2000).]

Offline Hangtime

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Life sentence for self-defense?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2000, 04:39:00 PM »
The moment we lose our rights to bear arms we cease being citizens. We become subjects.

Licensing sidearms WILL NOT preclude a criminal from possession of a firearm. No carrer criminal owns a LICENSED weapon. By law; they can't.. yet they still have 'em.

I live on an Island.. with about 2 million other citizens. There are 5 bridges; all within 25 miles of each other; all through NYC.

There is 3 days worth of food on this island. 3 days is all that seperates all 2 million of us from civilization to anarchy. Needless to say; I own a boat and live less than a mile from it. I also fly; and know where to get a plane in a heluva hurry.

Should a disaster strike; I know what I have to do; what it'll take, what to take to get clear of here. I shudder to think of what will become of those who remain behind; and know that those that have weapons will have a better chance of survival than those that don't.

Real power eminates from the point of a gun. Everything else is innuendo.

Hang
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.