TM H.O.T.A.S or CH H.O.T.A.S?

[Pongo]

You would think such a heavily made piece of gear would last well. You would be mistaken.
Go with CH.

[MOIL]

I don't bother with either of those hunks of garbage, I still use what the Pro's use. Why do ya think I'm so good ?

[Wilbus]

OK...

Do this, go with CH I'd say, alternativly an X52 (way less money but lots of people like it).

I am starting to have problems with my Cougar, not sure if it was like this from the beginning or if it has gotten like this lately. Nose bounces become an every increasing problem and the Fw 190's are even harder to fly (and specially aim) due to it.

It feels as if the stick is over sensitive near the center (for maybe the first 20% or so) which makes it near impossible to aim

Not sure how to fix this, tried raising deadzone but only helps a little...

[SKBG Seadog]

I have had problems with my COUGAR ever since the new AH came out. It works fine in Falcon 4.0. I have heard the same from other COUGAR owners.

[Wilbus]

Rgr that Seadog, mine works fine in IL2 aswell but for AH it really isn't good

[DonULFonso]

Originally posted by Wilbus
It feels as if the stick is over sensitive near the center (for maybe the first 20% or so) which makes it near impossible to aim

Not sure how to fix this, tried raising deadzone but only helps a little...

Did you try to simply reduce the axes' response-CURVEs instead of using the default linear one?

The default linear response-CURVE gives you the same sensitivity all along an axis' travel, while a decreased CURVE-setting results in a lower sensitivity near the center (and a normal sensitivity half way up/down respectively left/right, and a higher sensitivity towards te extremes).

If you feel like it, feel free to copy and paste the following lines into a blank .tmJ file, download it and switch your Cougar into programmed mode; then start your sim and use HAT1 to decrease the JOYSTICK's response-CURVE (more and more clockwise, with up to reset it to the default linear CURVE):

BTN H1U CURVE (JOYSTICK, 1)
BTN H1R CURVE (JOYSTICK, -2)
BTN H1D CURVE (JOYSTICK, -4)
BTN H1L CURVE (JOYSTICK, -6)

"-2" is the setting I usually use, "-6" might be a bit extreme; check out whether there's some setting you like, and if need be, adjust the values around it to fine-tune it, like let's say you found "-4" to seem better than the dafault "1", then try:

BTN H1U CURVE (JOYSTICK, 1)
BTN H1R CURVE (JOYSTICK, -3)
BTN H1D CURVE (JOYSTICK, -4)
BTN H1L CURVE (JOYSTICK, -5)

Hope this helps.

[Wilbus]

Rgr Ulf, been there done that. Nothing really helps at the moments it seems like.

I've mixed around with the responsive curve setting before aswell, all testing all the way from -1 to -10 or so but can't find anything I am happy with

[DonULFonso]

Hm, but in other sims your kitten's purring OK?

Are you sure it's not 'just' the f$%&ing stock springs being too stiff to allow any fine-control whatsoever especially around the center? Or is your stick modded? (But even a modded Cougar still requires (much) more force than a stock CH/Saitek/whatever.)

[Karnak]

I have a friend who is interested in getting into the combat flight sim stuff and he just bought the CH stuff.  It isn't too bad, but the programming is vastly worse and it comes with no manuals.  I wouldn't trade my Cougar for it, although I do have nose bounce.  I'd like to mod my Cougar, but I've never had the spare cash to do so.

[Wilbus]

It could be the stock springs that are too stiff, not sure, might be. It is not modded although I would like to do it in the future.

Looking in the cougar viewer it looks like (could be an illusion) that it moves in different speeds (Y axis) depending on where it is, specially the first 20% or so...

Works fine in IL2, no nose bounce there but Il2 and AH are modelled differently.

[DonULFonso]

@ Karnak:

The Control Manager of course has an online-help, but you're right: there are no printed manuals - since the CHs can be bought separate and combined any way you like, providing a paper manual would increase the price, unfortunately.

On the boards of The CH-Hangar you can find a "Dummie's Guide" and a pdf of the online-help (somewhere... feel free to contact me if you shouldn't be able to find it).

As for the CHs being hard to map and/or hard to program... you must be joking!

For an absolute beginner, CH's GUI with simple drop-down menus definitively is much easier to use than TM's text-based mapping with its DOS-like slash-codes.

For a normal user a GUI still is easier to use than a text-based system.

For an experienced user who actually is interested in really programming his controllers (as opposed to simply mapping it), Bob Church's current state of CH's scripting with its plain text statements and functions definitively is much easier to get into than Bob Church's original (in the meantime ancient, however) logical programming with its raw and rough bit-wise digital logic!

Yes, that's right: it's the same man's work we're talking about: it was Bob Church who introduced true programmability (on a rather basic and raw level, but powerful anyway) to the TMs, and it was (and still is, mind) BOb Church who introduced true programmabilty (on a really sophisticated level) to the CHs. The programmability of today's HOTAS Cougar is based on what he had developed for TM's F-22 Pro almost a decade ago, and Guillemot just slightly enhanced and improved it for the HOTAS Cougar - but they did not develop it any further. But Bob Church developed (and still is developing) CH's Control Manager with its scripting further. Draw your own conclusions...

@ Wilbus:

At least it's no hardware problem - no spiking pot, I mean, for the stock springs could be considered a hardware problem.

One thing to keep in mind while modifying your controllers' analogue settings: if you do so, do it either only via the game's control-options, or only via the stick's software - if you set up a custom response via both ways, i.e. set a custom curve in the CCP or the .tmJ and modify the settings in the game's control-options, then you apply the modified settings on an already modified axis! No way to predict the results of such a mess...

[Wilbus]

Rgr on the settings Ulf, what I wounder is this.

AH normal settings give an increasing curve along the Y axis. Should I instead make this Curve to a steady diagonal line?

I think that should be better if I modify it through the Cougar controll panel with a -4 in sensitivty?

Hard to explain what I mean... do you understand?

[DonULFonso]

Like I said: EITHER via the game's means, OR via the stick's means - never BOTH.

In other words, you'll have to find out for yourself (and on your own ) whether you can find a response to suit your taste via the game's means, or whether the stick's means will lead you to a satisfying solution.

If you should fiddle around with the game's means, then the stick's curve must me linear, and vice versa.

Using the game's means might be easier 'cause you can switch to and fro without leaving the game; using the stick's means has the advantage that once you've found a curve to your liking, you can save the according setting to a file and load it with your stick-setup.

Sorry that I can't be of much help here.

[Slash27]

Cougar= plug in, works for a bit, gets wonky, alot of foul language, its collects dust in the corner while Slash buys a X-52



CH= plug in and no worries ( according to many who told me to get CH in the first place)



Anyone want to buy a Cougar with some CH Pro peddals?  Make an offer.

[Wilbus]

How do you like the X52 slash? Just out of curiosity...