Chases High

[Sandman]

It's not the perks so much, IMHO. It's the short base distances.

With close bases, you can get to the fights faster, but you can also disengage with greater ease. I think that longer base distances would also reduce the effectiveness of the horde.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Morpheus
had a guy tonight come screaming in 10 feet off the deck vulch me, reverse and run back to his CV. I rolled and started following him only to watch him auger infront of me because he was too busy looking out his 6 probably zoomed in on me.

yes, top of the line sticks we have in the MA.

Had a guy trying to B n Z my low Spit IX in a Tempest last night.  I think I was frustrating him as I could turn tight enough at the right time to avoid it as he was going light speed.

I finally just took it as low as I could get, and here he comes again from way on high, I turned tight again and right into the turf he went.  That had to have been discouraging

[Morpheus]

On frac, the number one biggest piece of crap map that Aces High has ever seen... The bases are so far apart that you need to pack a lunch so you dont go hungry just on the way to the fight.

Also, even with its bases being very far apart, there are nothing but hordes of red or green, nothing inbetween.

We have a huge percentage of the MA being new.

We also have at times 650 to sometimes 700 players on now.

With all those players, and many of them being new, they are going to horde, and remain in the saftey of their green force field around them. That's just the way it is. Nothing against them. They are new, they have no idea what is going on half the time anyways. Just follow the leader that's all.

It doesnt matter if its small, or large, near or far, the hordes are now bigger than ever and here to stay. Hopefully when ToD comes out some of this hording will even out. I miss the nights, when prime time consisten of basicly 250 or 300 players who just wanted to fight. There was still base taking, but it happened on a completely different scale than it does now.

Back then it was, furball until everyone dies on one side and its pushed back to one field or the other, that field got vulched eventually, then captured. The furball then moved on and was between another two bases.

Now its up in a mass of 70 heavies with 6 goons, bomb the living hell out of anything that can be bombed and drop 60 troops over the town. yay.

[DipStick]

Originally posted by Morpheus
I miss the nights, when prime time consisten of basicly 250 or 300 players who just wanted to fight. There was still base taking, but it happened on a completely different scale than it does now.

Back then it was, furball until everyone dies on one side and its pushed back to one field or the other, that field got vulched eventually, then captured. The furball then moved on and was between another two bases.

Those were the "good old days".

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Morpheus
On frac, the number one biggest piece of crap map that Aces High has ever seen... The bases are so far apart that you need to pack a lunch so you dont go hungry just on the way to the fight.

Also, even with its bases being very far apart, there are nothing but hordes of red or green, nothing inbetween.

We have a huge percentage of the MA being new.

We also have at times 650 to sometimes 700 players on now.

With all those players, and many of them being new, they are going to horde, and remain in the saftey of their green force field around them. That's just the way it is. Nothing against them. They are new, they have no idea what is going on half the time anyways. Just follow the leader that's all.

It doesnt matter if its small, or large, near or far, the hordes are now bigger than ever and here to stay. Hopefully when ToD comes out some of this hording will even out. I miss the nights, when prime time consisten of basicly 250 or 300 players who just wanted to fight. There was still base taking, but it happened on a completely different scale than it does now.

Back then it was, furball until everyone dies on one side and its pushed back to one field or the other, that field got vulched eventually, then captured. The furball then moved on and was between another two bases.

Now its up in a mass of 70 heavies with 6 goons, bomb the living hell out of anything that can be bombed and drop 60 troops over the town. yay.

Sounds about right. So, you have a choice, adapt your style and tactics accordingly to re-find the 'fun' for yourself or piss and moan incessantly about 'the bygone good old days' when everyone fought you your way just because you wanted them to. I for one fight humans for their innate and infinite ability to adapt, adaptation is what seperates us from AI and the lower animals. One thing is as certain as death and taxes 'people' as a group will not change, a 'person', however, has limitless capacity for change, so the onus is on you, the individual, to change and adapt to the 'group'. To expect the 'group' to change to conform to your wishes is like expecting gravity to make objects fall UP, it defies the laws of the universe and will never happen no matter how much you or anyone else may wish it to.

Zazen

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Sandman
It's not the perks so much, IMHO. It's the short base distances.

With close bases, you can get to the fights faster, but you can also disengage with greater ease. I think that longer base distances would also reduce the effectiveness of the horde.

If someone is going to disengage/run, thats just what they are going to do, regardless of the proximity of a nearby base. Running to a closer base or a further base is just ... running ... period.

Longer distances between bases contributes/feeds the horde. Back in the "Pizza" days, once a small horde started, it grew quite fast due to the fact that the distance between the bases did not allow an "intradiction" group to get up and get to the base under "vulch" fast enough to possibly stop the capture, nor would this distance allow a reversal of capture before the horde moved onto the next target. As fields were captured, they horde grew bigger and mowed down everything in its path.

Maps like FesterMA, with fields closer together, allows an end-around on the horde and fields can be recaptured if the horde DOESN'T leave some protection behind ... which they rarely do. Hence, even tho they still move as a horde, they really don't contribute much to the overall resetting of a map ... their actions a nullified.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Sounds about right. So, you have a choice, adapt your style and tactics accordingly to re-find the 'fun' for yourself or piss and moan incessantly about 'the bygone good old days' when everyone fought you your way just because you wanted them to. I for one fight humans for their innate and infinite ability to adapt, adaptation is what seperates us from AI and the lower animals. One thing is as certain as death and taxes 'people' as a group will not change, a 'person', however, has limitless capacity for change, so the onus is on you, the individual, to change and adapt to the 'group'. To expect the 'group' to change to conform to your wishes is like expecting gravity to make objects fall UP, it defies the laws of the universe and will never happen no matter how much you or anyone else may wish it to.

Zazen

So this is the old, if everyone else jumps off the bridge, I should jump too argument?

When with the horde, act like the horde?

It's not my responsibilty, I was only following orders?

Having visions of defendents at Nuremberg right now with their explations for why they had no accountabilty.  They were just adapting to the crowd

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Sounds about right. So, you have a choice, adapt your style and tactics accordingly to re-find the 'fun' for yourself or piss and moan incessantly about 'the good old days' when everyone fought you your way just because you wanted them to. I for one fight humans for their innate and infinite ability to adapt, that is what seperates us from the lower animals. One thing is as certain as death and taxes 'people' as a group will not change, a 'person', however, has limitless capacity for change, so the onus is on you, the individual, to change and adapt to the 'group'. To expect the 'group' to change to conform to your wishes is like expecting gravity to make abjects fall UP, it defies the laws of the universe and will never happen no matter how much you or anyone else may wish it to.

Zazen

LOL Zazen I love how you talk high and mighty when even the newest of newbs can kick the holly hell out of you. You dont impress me, you never have, you never will. So keep the preaching for someone who gives a chit.

And for your information, no one ever faught the way "I" wanted them too. The just used to fight. That was my point genious.

What would "adapting" to the hordes be in your mind? To join the countless nimrods with their heavy 38's and 51's and bomb the hell out of any base in my way all the while staying within the saftey of my horde? Or wait, I know... Only engage an enemy when the enemy itself is engaged with several other friendlies.

You go from one thread to another preaching you're god awful bullchit. Whats even more hysterical is that you are preaching to those of us who know how much of a chump you are. You're only kidding yourself.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by DipStick
Those were the "good old days".

One thing I have noticed. Those that cling to the past and do not adapt are the ones complaining incessantly. Those that 'go with the flow' apapting their style, plane-choice and tactics to accomodate the dynamically changing MA environment are having a great time. A product of this nature is ever evolving, the nature of the engagements of the MA evolve with it over time, if you, the player, do not also evolve you are going to become frustrated as is evidenced in this thread. No matter how much you wish it so the 'old days' are but a foot-note of the past like AW is. No matter how much you may wish to return to that Utopic era it isn't going to happen. Adapt to the MA of today and re-find your 'fun', because no matter how much you complain, whine and piss n' moan the MA is NOT going to adapt to you, believe that.

Zazen

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Zazen13
One thing I have noticed. Those that cling to the past and do not adapt are the ones complaining incessantly. Those that 'go with the flow' apapting their style, plane-choice and tactics to accomodate the dynamically changing MA environment are having a great time. A product of this nature is ever evolving, the nature of the engagements of the MA evolve with it over time, if you, the player, do not also evolve you are going to become frustrated as is evidenced in this thread. No matter how much you wish it so the 'old days' are but a foot-note of the past like AW is. No matter how much you may wish to return to that Utopic era it isn't going to happen. Adapt to the MA of today and re-find your 'fun', no matter how much you complain, whine and piss n' moan the MA is NOT going to adapt to you, believe that.

Zazen

You really are retarded aren't you?

Who said anything about clinging to the past?

What he said was he missed the good old days. That's not to say he is refusing to change. Really there is nothing to change about the way he flys or I. There are just more targets around. The only thing tactical about MY Aces High is how im going to win a fight. The difference between now and then is like I said, more targets to deal with.

The ones who need to adapt are the players who only give a crap about taking bases and winning the war.


Stop taking what others say and pulling it out of context and into something that fits your needs to make some moronic point that everyone already knows to begin with.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Morpheus
You really are retarded aren't you?

Yup, I'm definately an idiot, a dolt, a stupid person... Pay no attention to me, I am a moron, I obviously have no idea what I am talking about.

Zazen

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Morpheus
Whats even more hysterical is that you are preaching to those of us who know how much of a chump you are. You're only kidding yourself.

Naw I'm not kidding myself, I have long ago come to terms with the fact I am a chump.

Zazen

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Guppy35
So this is the old, if everyone else jumps off the bridge, I should jump too argument?

When with the horde, act like the horde?

It's not my responsibilty, I was only following orders?

Having visions of defendents at Nuremberg right now with their explations for why they had no accountabilty.  They were just adapting to the crowd

Developing a strategy to defeat the tactics of an enemy rarely involves adopting the same tactics yourself. I'll use the TnB fighter as an example, someone is down low with some obvious skill in a turnfighter, you wish to engage him but are not in a turnfighter, the best way to defeat him is NOT to turn with him, the best way to defeat the tactics of a turnfighter is to do the opposite actually. In your case with the horde, one tactic I use with my wingman, just the two of us, to defeat a horde of 10+ is the drag and bag method. One of us will go into the horde with some E in a fast plane, make some half-assed passes to get their attention then pull a few out, the other comes around and shoots 'em off, then we just keep looping over and clearing 'em off one another until we run out of targets then we go get some more.

The point is adapting means not expecting the MA to automatically provide you with the type of engagement you want simply because you wish it so. You must get creative, change up the planes you fly and the way you fly them to manipulate the enemy into your type of engagement. My favorite whine in the MA is the Spit drivers complaining they can't find anyone willing to turnfight...duh... well unless the other guy is also in a Spit or an equally manueverable plane, of course you can't. If you are really the stick masters some of you so humbly *cough* think of yourselves as fly a plane that does not have an innate turnrate advantage over 95% of the planes in the MA, instead fly a middle of the road plane, I guarentee you will have more of the kind of fights you seek in short order. My Typhoon is a good example, there is not a plane in the set that won't take a stab at getting into a knife fight with a Typhoon, almost none except perhaps La7s run from me.

So, adaptation is a dual faceted process, you change yourself but also learn to manipulate your environment to meet you somewhere in the middle.

Zazen

[Kermit de frog]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Typhoon, of course.  Its great top speed, insanely lethal guns, outstanding acceleration, and excellent instant turn require more skill than anything in the entire game.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Great top speed of a typhoon is only "great" below 5k, otherwise, many other planes have a higher top speed.  Only other non perked planes faster than a typhoon are the La7, 190D9..  And if you are out of wep, than the pony and 1 other plane are faster on the deck.  Most planes get faster as they increase altitude so many planes are faster than the typhoon above 5k.

Acceleration on a typhoon is very poor.  Unless you have altitude to dive away, you are not going to out run a spitfire assuming you both started out doing 200mph.  The spitfire will close in to the typhoon because it has better acceleration.

Instant turn is great if you are on the guys six and want to go for the lead shot in a turn.  But all the spitfire pilot has to do is not do a flat turn, and keep turning, in about 13 seconds the spitfire will be on the typhoon's six.

Insanely lethal guns, eh, they are powerful, but sometimes I still have to get 4 shots to kill a spitfire or at least hurt it.   Besides, spits have the 20mm as well.

I repect those P38 pilots because it's a challenging plane to master.  I repect those 190D9 fighters that actually fight without running away.  D9 isn't exactly a turn fighter.   Basically anyone who turnfights in a plane known to be a poor turnfighter.  Those guys want a challenge and are getting one.
What I just said above was in defense to what was said by Leviathn.

You can be a great pilot in a spitfire, hurri, C205, La7 mossie, GREAT.  Have fun.  Fly anything you want.  REread my earlier post.  And for the spitfire pilots that were upset in this thread.  I didn't mean to get you upset.

If I flew a spitfire vs spitfire against some of you here, I'd probably lose in the first turn.  I'm just used to fighting without outturning my enemy.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
 I'm just used to fighting without outturning my enemy.

I have some bad news Kermit. I have been told on these boards, much to my chagrin, that unless you DO turn with the enemy, you aren't actually fighting. So, you don't fight, I'm sorry to have to break this sad news to you.

Zazen