Originally posted by gatt
Hello everybody 
, I am interested in the effectiveness of the BREDA-Safat 12,7mm belt mix in downing tough P-40s and Hurricanes, Spitfires MkII e MkV and light bombers in the North African and Malta theatres of ops.
German 109E and F had MG151/20 and FF cannons and 7,7mm. Italian fighters like the C.202, C.200 and G.50 had only 2x12,7mm. Actually they *did* shoot down allied fighters. So, I was wondering how they could do it. And looking at what Finns did with G.50s it makes me thinking that those BREDA were not only not so bad, but perhaps had a belt mix of HE-HEI-SAPI and onlygodknoswhat very effective.
I don't remember (my former squad mate) Dinger analysys about BREDA 12,7mm.
If we look at the comparison between perceived lethality in AH and in RL then we need to look at how damage is assigned in AH. It's similar to old WBs where by the rounds with the highest impact velocity are the most effective in causing damage. In RL a .50 may just punch right through leaving a nice little hole in the skin provided it doesn't hit something internally. In AH every hit contibutes to 'damage'. If you get enough hits or enough damage in a particular area something falls off or breaks. In rl (at least according to the gun cam films I have seen) very few 'shoot downs were the result of 'parts' being shot off or planes 'exploding'.
In AH things like engine damage, pilot hits, control surfaces, not to mention the 'fight to the death' nature of main game play (meaning that depending on the circumstances damage received in rl may result in a pilot bailing out / ditching rather then risking his life to push the fight or try to make it home to land his kills), if modeled are only done so to a degree. This may contribute to the impression that the lighter MG rounds, and / or those with lower velocities are 'ineffective'. This is especially true when comparing them to the AH Hispano, 3cm etc...
If you followed that link I provided you can still view that 202/P-40 avi in my reply. At least, visually it seems that the BREDA-Safat 12.7 mm is 'effective' enough, at least against planes like the P-40.
Back when I had an interest in the CT some of the funnest fights were 202s vs the P-40B/E. While it took some time in the gun site to 'kill' the Ami planes the 202 had the performance to stick right with the P-40s. In the main, being mostly a late-war arena with many players its difficult to keep on a target due to performance issues and when you do most likely another enemy will be lining up on you. This lack of 'quick kill' / 'snapshot' ability also may contribute to the impression of the ineffectiveness the lighter rounds.
The Japanese thought well of the Breda, I remember reading that Sakai said he preferred the 7 mm over the 20 Type 99 MK 1, he was certainly able to kill with the lighter round.
