Author Topic: Putin wants in Nato (Read 2352 times)

Krusher · « **on:** July 19, 2001, 10:27:00 AM »

Good idea or bad idea?

Boroda · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2001, 10:31:00 AM »

Noone will let him in.

Stalin wanted in NATO in 1949 too.

Nifty · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2001, 10:39:00 AM »

Depends on the reasons why.

as for Stalin in 49... The cold war was already starting to heat (oxymoron there) up. USSR comes into NATO and then who is the "enemy"???

Boroda · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2001, 10:43:00 AM »

Nifty, you expressed the heart of the matter in one phrase

Let's see if this approach still exists.

Putin wants to be like Stalin, but lacks class.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2001, 10:47:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda:

Putin wants to be like Stalin, but lacks class.

And 50 million deaths.

Boroda · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2001, 11:01:00 AM »

Rip, where did you get that number?

Wonder when it will reach 150 million.

funkedup · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2001, 11:14:00 AM »

I don't think Russia is ready to be in NATO. But instead of just saying "no" there should be communication about what changes are needed, and some kind of plan and timetable established for Russia to make those changes and for NATO to let them in. I think 2017 would be a reasonable and historically convenient date.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2001, 11:16:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda:
Rip, where did you get that number?

Free press, something that's a new concept to Russia in only the last 10 years. You want every book or just a select few I pulled those numbers from (not exact mind you, but once you get over 30 million, does exact number really matter?)

Another thing that Putin lacks is paranoia and insanity.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2001, 11:17:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup:
I think 2017 would be a reasonable and historically convenient date.

ROTFLOL!

Boroda · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »

Rip, I remember the "free press", the Voice of America in spring, 1986. Every day they declared the number of people killed by Chernobil explosion. They started from modest 5000, and in less then a week ended up with 120000. Don't know if they went further - I stopped listening to that roadkill.

There is no statistics about Stalin's repressions. Official numbers are that the biggest population of GULAG was 1.2 million in 1940, it is probably a fake, but "uncounted millions" of victims is a roadkill too. Rip, 50 million is 1/3 of the whole USSR population that time.

Stalin was the most successful Russian politician since Alexander III. Let's not talk about paranoia and insanity. He was a bastard, but a clever bastard.

Funked, Russia will never switch to NATO weapon standars for obvious reasons. And frankly speaking that Russian military will ever agree to act according to orders from the US, that they'll have to do according to NATO regulations... So it looks like Stalin's request in 1949. And after our new allience with China it's especially funny.

mietla · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2001, 12:32:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort:

-------------------
Originally posted by Boroda:

Putin wants to be like Stalin, but lacks class.
--------------------
And 50 million deaths.

That's what Boroda meant by saying "Putin lacks class".

Boroda · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2001, 12:56:00 PM »

Mietla, please don't put words in my mouth.

john9001 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2001, 02:50:00 PM »

"" one death is a tragedy.....
a million deaths are a statistic""
joe stalin

Ripsnort · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2001, 03:04:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda:
Rip, I remember the "free press", the Voice of America in spring, 1986. Every day they declared the number of people killed by Chernobil explosion. They started from modest 5000, and in less then a week ended up with 120000. Don't know if they went further - I stopped listening to that roadkill.

There is no statistics about Stalin's repressions. Official numbers are that the biggest population of GULAG was 1.2 million in 1940, it is probably a fake, but "uncounted millions" of victims is a roadkill too. Rip, 50 million is 1/3 of the whole USSR population that time.

Stalin was the most successful Russian politician since Alexander III. Let's not talk about paranoia and insanity. He was a bastard, but a clever bastard.

Funked, Russia will never switch to NATO weapon standars for obvious reasons. And frankly speaking that Russian military will ever agree to act according to orders from the US, that they'll have to do according to NATO regulations... So it looks like Stalin's request in 1949. And after our new allience with China it's especially funny.

Who said Soviet Mind Control doesn't work?

FYI, Soviet population was 1/3 of what I quoted dead AFTER the great purge (don't they have history books on this in Russia?) Of course there are no official statistics, he made sure those were 'eliminated' along with the millions of people.

No one here paid much attention to the VOA, but, what I believe they were reporting was 120,000 were AFFECTED, not dead. That included the baltic countries and other countries downwind.

Boroda, time to join a book club, read some history that your country was too fearful for you to find out. Your young, open your mind up, don't close it down so soon, you have plenty of good years ahead of you to take in information from all sides and evaluate it yourself. And stop drinking so much!

Serapis · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2001, 03:17:00 PM »

Quote

Rip, I remember the "free press", the Voice of America in spring, 1986. Every day they declared the number of people killed by Chernobil explosion. They started from modest 5000, and in less then a week ended up with 120000. Don't know if they went further - I stopped listening to that roadkill.

Boroda, Voice of America isn't exactly the free press, just good old cause-supporting propoganda

Speaking of Chernobyl, how long did it take the Soviet press to break the story? We had our own (though much smaller) nuclear accident at Three Mile Island and it was on the evening news nationally as it happened. The investigations that followed were also covered openly.

The Western press (and book authors for that matter), when it isn't busy chasing down the latest sex scandal or hard hitting story on a child trapped in a well, is generally fully open to print/telecast what it sees fit.

As for Joe Stalin... while sentimentality may be strong among those who never posed a perceived threat to the regime, there are more than a few Russians who remember how classy Beria and his henchmen were -- starvation in a gulag or bullet in the back of the head. (Of course, Beria also used to pick women off the street for mandatory "dates", but that's more of a personal evil than government policy.)

There are various numbers for the death toll, but tens of millions during his entire reign are fairly common and accepted.

Charon