Cops at your door

[DREDIOCK]

just install a trapdoor with a hidden tiger pit undrneith and when they try to talk you into comming in, pull the secret lever and down they drop.

When the next group comes to find out what happened to the first just tell em
"I dunno. they said they were going out to the patrol car and would be right back and thats the last I saw of em."

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
When the next group comes to find out what happened to the first just tell em
"I dunno. they said they were going out to the patrol car and would be right back and thats the last I saw of em."

or you could just pull the lever again

[Gunthr]

again,
the lesson is - if you don't want to lose your right to refuse a search, don't break the law or engage in suspicious behavior.

well, yeah...    

This applies even more so when you realize that often officers will call a nearby K-9 officer to walk his dog around the exterior of a driver's vehicle after he has stopped the car for a traffic violation and his suspicion is aroused by something.  

But the officer won't ask your permission for this because, in this case, it isn't considered a "search."  Therefore, you can't refuse it.  Of course, if the dog alerts to contraband, it will establish probable cause to do a warrantless search of the interior, which is permitted by the automobile exception to the warrant requirement.  

Then of course, the law allows that officers may briefly search persons and nearby accessible areas in the interior for weapons while they are doing their job, and it goes rapidly downhill from there.  This scenario seems to happen more often at night time when the K-9 officers are more likely to be on duty - and looking for something to do with that highly trained Czheckoslovakian raised German Shepard with stainless steel teeth implants that responds only to commands in the German language.

[capt. apathy]

not sure how the courts would come down on that scenario, but I'd think calling for a K-9 unit to do a more thorough investigation of your car with out some sort of probable cause should be out.

it would be one thing if the dog was already with the officer at the initial contact.  but elevating the level of inspection without legitimate probable cause doesn't seem right.

[Shamus]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
not sure how the courts would come down on that scenario, but I'd think calling for a K-9 unit to do a more thorough investigation of your car with out some sort of probable cause should be out.

it would be one thing if the dog was already with the officer at the initial contact.  but elevating the level of inspection without legitimate probable cause doesn't seem right.

No need for probable cause to have the dog walk around the car. Also I have seen good handlers turn the dog on and off with voice or hand signals.

shamus

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

When the cops come to my door, I just yell "I'm armed!"
-SW

[Gunthr]

I know what you mean,Capt. Apathy.  But if the vehicle is lawfully detained, it wouldn't be considered a search for the purposes of the Fourth Amendment.  

It certainly isn't against procedure to ask for backup, and a K9 officer on duty will respond if he isn't doing anything... and once on scene, the k-9 officer has descretion to leave the dog in the car or let him out.  

There is a lot of this activity at night near the major drug arteries, esp north/south in Florida.

This sounds a little whacky, but maybe the logic behind this apparent oversite in protecting people from overzealous cops is that K9 dogs are considered to be "police officers" in some ways.  As you probably know, whatever is in a police officer's "plain view" is fair game for search and siezure.  

It may be that a vehicle so reeking of drugs or chem precursors, pot, whatever, that a K9 dog can detect it from outside the lawfully detained vehicle, in a place the dog and his handler have a right to be, is considered "plain view" for a K9 dog with their natural sense of smell.  I could be wrong ... not sure of the theory behind it, I'm just guessing.  Maybe Maverick knows...

[lasersailor184]

I think you are extrapolating it a little too far Gunthr.  It's much simpler.

If a Cop stops you for erratic driving and smells alcohol on your breath, it is probable cause to detain you for drunk driving.

If a K9 unit smells marijuana in your car, it gives them probable cause to believe you are in possession of marijuana.

[Squire]

You cant "lose" your right to refuse a search, and you cant "lose" your right to refuse entry by the police.

You can agree to either if asked, thats not the same thing.

As far as entry into a home, there are a lot of people who think they always need a warrant. They dont. There are many circumstances under Federal law in both Canada and the USA that allows police to enter under certain circumstances, examples include witnessing a felony being commited, or being freshly pursued by police, those are just two. I wont bother with a 10,000 page list of them all, but there are a few out there, and of course, every state in the USA has a seperate state criminal code as well, so it depends on where you live.

Most police are well versed in what circumstances they can demand entry, or a search of your person, they do it for a living. Many people get themselves in hot water by assuming they know the law, when they dont. That being said "always know your rights" I agree with 100 percent. Be informed.

[Gunthr]

I think you are extrapolating it a little too far Gunthr. It's much simpler.

If a Cop stops you for erratic driving and smells alcohol on your breath, it is probable cause to detain you for drunk driving.

If a K9 unit smells marijuana in your car, it gives them probable cause to believe you are in possession of marijuana.

I have a knack for doing that. Lazer.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
if you don't know what your rights are, this site is very helpful.

http://flexyourrights.org/

When I was stationed at the Brooklyn Naval Yards in the early 70's me and a friend of mine were walking around browsing in store windows, when I felt a jab in my back. It was a New York cop jabbing me with his night stick. He simply motioned with the stick and said "Move On". As we walk on down the street I turned to my friend and said "Wait a minute, he can't do that". My friend replied " Go back there and tell him that, he'll call for a few of his buddies, drag you back in the nearest alley. and then after beating the crap out of you arrest you for assaulting a police officer. Moral of the story. If you know what your rights are, make sure you have plenty witnesses.

[Leslie]

Or he could've just just stared that cop in the eye 'til he left.





Les

[indy007]

While we're on this subject, for those curious...

12. How do my rights apply during security checks?

Be aware that private security personnel outnumber police officers in the United States by three to one. As a result, you may be more likely to be confronted by a security guard than by a police officer. You must also be aware of the following places where security personnel (governmental or otherwise) are permitted to search you without a warrant:

Border Searches - The Supreme Court has held that an officer does not need a warrant, probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion to search you, your car, or your belongings, at a border. Therefore, any time you cross a U.S. border, you in effect consent to a search.

Airport Searches - Be aware that airport security personnel do not need a warrant, probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion to search you or your belongings before boarding any commercial airline. Again, any time you board a commercial airline, you in effect consent to a search.

Private Security Checks - Private security personnel have a right to search you as a condition of entry into private property, for example. It is up to the individual to decide if a search is worth the price of admission. As long as you are free to walk away, the security personnel do not pose a threat to your constitutional liberties.

Keep in mind that a security guard can turn illegal drugs over to a police officer. In such a case, the drugs are then admissible in evidence, because the search was conducted by a private security guard. And at the present time the Fourth Amendment does not apply to searches carried out by non-governmental employees like private security guards.

[Vipermann]

So does that mean that I could require the cops to submit to a search before I allowed them to enter my home? Could I confiscate their weapons for the duration of their time on my private property?  

[Sandman]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
When the cops come to my door, I just yell "I'm armed!"
-SW

Be sure to tell them that you're not coming out as well.

Before you know it, you'll have dozens of cops outside your door.