The right to bear arms saved my life

[Morpheus]

Vulcan...

You are wrong in so many ways. I'm hesitant to even reply to you. Why? Well, part of me thinks that explaining our way of life to someone who lives in an entirely different world is without purpose. The other part of me just feels bad for you.
Why?

Well, for several reasons.

One...

We chose the right to live without fearing for lives on a daily basis.

You do not have the freedom to chose. The choice has been made for you by your government.

without fearing for lives on a daily basis

I have to ask, how do you know what we, I, fear on a daily basis? In all honesty, I fear getting side swipped by a drunk driver more so than I do someone coming up to me with a gun, robbing/killing me. Ignorance is not only bliss, its a way of life for some of you I guess.

I have the choice to own and carry a gun, as a US citizen. I have the right to keep one under my bed, under my pillow, under the seat of my car. Under my belt if I want to. That is my choice. Ones you do not have.

Its very sad that people like you think taking guns out of the hands of the innocent/honest will help protect them. This is something I will never understand. Not even partly...

you don't get that it is possible for other places to live comfortably without being armed to the teeth.

I do get it. Its called relying on the government and civil servants to protect you at all times. Its called surrendering your human rights to those who decide what sort of rights you can and cannot have. I have read in a few history books that this sort of thing has a nasty way of turning around and kicking you in the ass.

You people on that rock are armed to the teeth... In all the wrong ways. What?.. The criminals don't use guns over there? If you believe that its no wonder you people think I need to cary an Ak47 when I go grocery shopping.

I can own a firearm if I want too, I just need to prove I can safely operate and store it, and that I'm not a criminal or nutjob.

No you cannot own a firearm if you want too. You pay to shoot one. Then you pay another guy to let you use his locker to lock "your" English side by side shotgun up. Then you pay your government to tell you; "you can shoot this firearm when we say so, and you can even say its "yours", but we reserve the right to take it away when we see fit".

I, on the other hand can own hundreds of firearms, of any kind, the limit is set only by the all mighty dollar in my pocket, and keep them in my house, shoot them when I see fit, and as long as I don't kill anyone and abide by the laws, can do whatever I want with them. I can load up 10-20+ guns in my car, drive to my fathers range, go shooting, go hunting, pack up and go home.

Again just for hahas'.

I can own a firearm if I want too, I just need to prove I can safely operate and store it, and that I'm not a criminal or nutjob

[/b]

Yaknow the saddest thing I take away from that statement? The criminals, the ones who can shoot you in the head, pull your body out of your car and drive off with your wife, doesn't need to prove squat. Kinda makes you mad dont it? The criminals have more freedom than you!

For every criticism of beetle, you should take a look in the mirror because you are his extreme opposite.

Golly-gee right. You couldn't pay me to live under the restrictions you face day in and day out. I wake up every day, and [d]do look in the mirror[/b]. And I thank god, and all those who gave up their lives for me,  so I could enjoy mine any way I see fit.

Trying to change my views on gun control would be like trying to explain morals to a prostitute. Guns are how my family makes a living. I will own them and support owning them until the day I die. If they try to take them away? Sure, they can try, but as the saying goes... From my cold-dead-hands.

Remember, you dont just live half way around the world... You live in an entirely different world.

[SOB]

I live in the US, and don't live with any worries of being shot in my daily life.  And coincidentally I don't live in one of the most populous urban areas in the country.  Also, I don't care how England legislates firearms, nor do I care how the average Brit feels about US firearm legislation.  Frankly, I don't know why anyone here from the US even cares to respond to the know-it-alls from across the pond who actually know little to nothing of the daily life of the average American.

[fuzeman]

Originally posted by x0847Marine

Adding to my already bad day, the LA Kings are down 5-1 in the 1st period.

x0847Marine,
I'm glad your safe and I apologize for having fun at your expense.
I'm a Sabre fan. We had a good game and your team didn't start off on the right skate.

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by NUKE
you are a fool. He could have really broken your neck, and you just sat there and allowed it to happen... even egged it on by running your mouth. Maybe you could have "I was the bigger man" etched on your tombstone.

The first thing you should have done was ignore the "look". If anyone grabs my throat, I'm taking that as a threat to my health, and possibly my life. I'm not going to try to be sure and come off as the better man, I'm going to protect myself from the obvious assault.

ignore the look? i needed him to move so i could buy my drink. he was in my way, and asking for trouble. if you kow me from thses boards you find out that i enjoy it when people attack me. i enjoy making them look stupid.

the big difference between your life and mine is that thse fools are all mouth, and serious damage is not a likely hood for me, whereas for you someone could whip out a gun and kill you in 2 seconds.

hey, if he had broken my neck (i broke it myself when i was 16, it hurts) then yeah, you could etch 'the better man' on my tombstone.  

we must agree to disagree.

with one hand on my throat a fat balding middle aged alcoholic cant break my neck.

had he moved the other hand to a threatning possition i might have stopped him.

saw the punch coming, took it in the mouth, laughed at him after.

he wanted to threaten me, i wouldnt let him.

i see your point, i really do, but you dont live in the UK, your society maybe things are more serious. people here dont just kill folk, specially not in a quiet family pub.


the end result is he bought me a pint and everyone who saw the incedent came away respecting me, not the fool who thought he was proving how much respect he deserved.


my appologiers for attacking you in my reply, i just strongly disagree.

I've been walking the streets at 4am, had crack heads tell me they are going to stab me, waving the knife in my face, if i dont give them my money. I tell them to go ahead and offer them my throat. they never do it. and having lightning reflexes i would avoid the thrust should it come.

this guy just wanted to hit me, so be it. I knew him, i knew he was all mouth.  a risk maybe, but one that i took and didnt suffer from.


would you consider that X-marine's actions are more, or less foolhardy than mine? he is starting a war with someone who doesnt care if they go to prison, and probably has nothing to lose anyhow.



now.....had guns been an issue in my scenario, i would have reacted instantly and without bravado. a knife or a drunk idiot are easy to fight off, a gun, near impossible.

i calculated the risk he posed to me, and came out on top.

bat

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Morpheus
Beetle, I think you forget that we dont live on (in comparison of size, in every aspect) a small island. Everything here is bigger, everything... so to compare the US with you (as you always love to do) people really doesnt say much. Its alot easier to walk by and knock down an ant hill than it is to knock down mount Everest.

I think the issue of the size of the country is irrelevant. Australia is akin to Britain in many ways - they call petrol petrol, not gasoline, they call lifts lifts, not elevators... many Australians are descended from the British. And... Australia is about the same size (95%+) as the continental USA/lower 48, and... AFAIK there is no "gun culture" there. Indeed, in many gun threads we have sc-sp00k weigh in on the anti-gun side.

I don't buy this crap about guns creating "more freedom". What about in the years before guns were invented - are you saying that no-one was free? Bollocks. Some countries like this one drew the lines on the map before guns were invented. But I can see your point of view, coming from a country with a whole 230 years of history.

I have to ask, how do you know what we, I, fear on a daily basis?

Read the thread title and the original post.

Golly-gee right. You couldn't pay me to live under the restrictions you face day in and day out.

That's your choice, but I think there's far more at stake than the single issue of guns. The USA is not the only "civilised" country where citizens have the right to own guns. South Africa is another, and has a homicide rate to match yours. The crime there in the post apartheid years has got out of control, so guess what? Many, many white South Africans are giving up their gun rights and seeking refuge in Britain. They are coming over here in droves. But that's OK - they integrate well and work hard. Sorry to spoil your troll with the facts.

Just as beetle can't get the idea that the criminals in the US can't be disarmed

No Vulcan - I know it's too late. The second amendment guaranteed the right of citizens to bear arms. The people who created it never thought that the day would come when the very people they held in contempt and who had no rights - black slaves - would themselves become citizens. The US has made its bed, and now it must lie in it. For this reason, I have never suggested that law abiding Americans should give up their guns, and I challenge you to find a post on this board where I did.

Batfink - was that pub in Lane End?

[B@tfinkV]

LOL beet!   you mean the brickmaker's arms??


nope, it was the George and Dragon in my village, west wycombe.


its a hotel/pub,   old fashioned and quaint.

the kind of place American tourist almost cream themselves over when they see that it was built before America was invented.



stupid, stupid scenario for me to get into, but highly satisfying to let him hit me in the face then laugh at him.




edit: you really should start flying again man, the new CT is exactly what you wished the MA could be. honestly, its fantastic amounts of fun and good respectfull fights.

[Angus]

Well, there is always the qestion of a gun or not, and a handgun or not.
I don't have gangsters next door, but if I did, I could expect them to have guns, - but not handguns.
Nothing to hide, so I feel fine with my sniper rifle and shotgun behind the door, hehe.

[moot]

I saw him today in the same spot, and he brought me a pint and appologised. had i 'kicked his arse' then the problem would have only got worse.

You're dealing with fluff'n idiots, that's your problem.

The way I see it, people get what they deserve.
The riots in France, earlier? They had it coming for a long while.. has anything been done?  They'll doubly deserve whatever happens next.
American civil liberties eroding? You deserve it.
Middle-easterners in the ****pot they're in?  They deserve it too, proxy or not.
Two people in a hotel, feuding?  Who else but themselves act it out?  Is it the inanimate bottle of wine's fault?   Is it and its outcome the fault of the woman's feeble skeleton?

Whether from one extremity, such as fundamental education, natural resources and geography, etc, or another, such as politics, social or economic choices, everything has to fit together.

It's called civility, mutual consent to live justly and on a fair basis, that means no tolerance for corruption or any injustice, etc.   I could go on but I want to stay brief..  it's really not that hard to accomplish.

If you start with and stay faithful (in the loyal sense) to a basic principle of Good, things can only end for the best. Whether because you believe in a religiously guided Good or rationaly guided one.
Veer off it even a little, and there's no escaping causality.

p.s.  I think the biggest missing piece in the US's puzzle is a more thorough education, earlier.

[Curval]

Originally posted by LePaul
Dont worry, Beet.  Over here, we take guns away from wife beaters.

Wow...is that the best you can do?  Beet1e 2 LePaul & Pooh21 0.

[moot]

Well he does have a point.  Someone in that position is nothing short of cowardly.  Having a gun in the other hand would've emphasised it, see, because he wouldn't have used it, yet he did feel it right to break that woman's arm.

It's ok to harm someone out of malice if it's only a little?

They probably deserved each other, but now I'm speculating.

Back on topic, someone living near xM's taking the time to help him out would be the right thing to do.

[B@tfinkV]

im lost moot, are you replying to me?   my story was simply to state that had guns been alowed in that pub i might have been shot, or i might have shot the bastige as he ran away.


i dont knwo what this woman beating thing is about.



i wasnt asking for advice about my friday nite, i was stating that not having guns made it a fat lip not a funeral.


the way i see it is that he wanted to put his power over me.

in the UK i know for a fact he wont have a gun.

simply to suck up his weak punch and laugh at him made him turn and run from me.


its not about dealing with idiots being sensible or not, its about having the freedom to deal with idiots without fear of being killed for standing up for yourself.


imagine a man blocking the only door from a building, just because he is an idiot doesnt mean you dont need to go past him.

[Morpheus]

Read the thread title and the original post.

That is by far, not the way of life here beetle.There is a reason, minorities are called minorities.

What about in the years before guns were invented - are you saying that no-one was free?

Why do you think we have our freedom? Why do you think we were able to write the Bill of Rights? Because a farmer picked up his musket and kicked you people out.

many Australians are descended from the British.  And... Australia is about the same size (95%+) as the continental USA/lower 48, and... AFAIK there is no "gun culture" there.

lol!!! my god, I really want to beleive you're trolling here. Honestly I do. Many Australians are descended from the British because you took what Natives, that weren't used for building railroads there,  and ran them off cliffs (At gun point).

That's your choice, but I think there's far more at stake than the single issue of guns. The USA is not the only "civilised" country where citizens have the right to own guns. South Africa is another, and has a homicide rate to match yours. The crime there in the post apartheid years has got out of control, so guess what? Many, many white South Africans are giving up their gun rights and seeking refuge in Britain. They are coming over here in droves. But that's OK - they integrate well and work hard. Sorry to spoil your troll with the facts

Troll? Why do you say that? Because I disagree with how you compare my mountian to your ant hill? I owe my freedom, the life I have today to those who gave up theirs while picking up a gun and running you people out. I think this is where all the negativity comes from with you people. You're still sore about what getting your arses kicked by a bunch of farmers.

South Africa Vs the United States is a very ignorant and weightless comparison at best. Apples to Oranges. You're going to have to do better than that.

Do you think you're safer because in 1997 your "Government" forced your people to hand over around 170,000 firearms? LOL. I'm sure there were alot of hardened criminals turning in their guns the day those bills were passed. Disarm the honest and inocent, while the criminals celebrate how easy its going to be to hold you, your women and children at gun point while they rape and rob them.

The people who created it never thought that the day would come when the very people they held in contempt and who had no rights - black slaves - would themselves become citizens.

Pot calling the kettle black again I see. The only difference is you ensalved thousands to mine for diamonds, gold, silver, and build railroads.... On a different rock.

[DipStick]

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.

5- Flamebaiting, trolling, or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed.

[lasersailor184]

im lost moot, are you replying to me? my story was simply to state that had guns been alowed in that pub i might have been shot, or i might have shot the bastige as he ran away.

You missed the point entirely.  Whether or not guns are allowed in that bar is irrelevant to whether or not either of you were carrying.

[lazs2]

batfink.... I have no idea of what the point of your story is unless you think that every fight in America that is simply a fair fight ends in gunplay..

You have no idea.  In fact...  allmost all fair fights in America end much as you have described... I would feel no need to shoot a drunk at a local resteraunt.

And... You claim to be one of the toughest men on the planet with superhero reflexes... that may be true.  

So where the hell were you when your muslim gangs were gang beating and gang rapeing your fellos citizens and women?  

Huh tough guy?   How do you think you would fare in a ghetto here?    Tell em "go ahead"???  What makes you think that they would even understand what you said?   What makes you think that they weren't allready planning to "go ahead".

It allways cracks me up when some young strong guy who is too dumb to realize that he could go down in a heartbeat himself.... thinks that everyone else will play by his rules for one.... and for another.... thinks that his options are the same as the weak... the infirm.. the old and the female.

You aren't protecting em... your criminals are running wild on your weak  and you aren't doing anything but getting blotto lying around in some bar while it is happening.

You wouldn't last 2 minutes here in the situation xmarine finds himself...  Hopefully you would figure that out and move away to some place in America (and there are plenty) where they have lilly white bars for you to hang out in and the most threatening thing will be some guy even more drunk than you are....  until you get older or infirm of course... then you can just pray no one hurts you I guess.

This may sound harsh but.... xmarines situation isn't some pub playtime for swaggering aussie bully boys...  It's the real deal with gangbangers who often have killing a white guy as part of their initiation (they would love you to offer your sunburned neck)...  

You simply have nothing of any importance to add here.   You don't know anything about it here and it would appear... that you can't see past the strength of your own arm there... It would appear that you only care about swaggering in a bar and don't give a whit about your fellow aussies who have to deal with life in a more realistic manner.

lazs