Author Topic: Star Trek Online?  (Read 519 times)

Offline LtHans

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Star Trek Online?
« on: January 03, 2002, 05:29:00 AM »
No, there is no such thing.  Not that I know of anyway.

But with games like AH and EverQuest the era of pay to play, online only games is here in a big way.  I predict sooner or latter there will be a Star Trek Online.

What would you like it to have?

Personnally, I would prefer the Movie era (movies 1-6).  I like the Klingons fighting the Federation, but not the corny Original Series way.  They're also not so sickenly goody-goody that the Next Generation era is.  Kirk wasn't afraid to mess with primitive civilizations if he didn't like them... the Prime Directive being only a "suggestion".

I also like the ships better than the orginal and Next Gen ones.

Offline Karnak

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2002, 05:33:00 AM »
I agree with you.  The ships from the first 6 movies, Enterprise, Reliant, Grissom and Excelsior were better looking than any others that have been done for Star Trek.
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Offline MrBill

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2002, 07:56:00 AM »
heh heh heh, Not sure if Star Trek or Oregon Trail was the first, but both Have been "on line" games for at least 20 years. I remember getting some absurd phone bills from playing years ago.  Needed a CPM box to access the game, (I think Amiga people could hook in later on) no graphics, just grand strategy, exploring, and large scale combat.  Sure was fun if you liked to think in abstract dimensions ... and could handle a 1000 X 1000 X 1000 parsec universe.
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Offline Nath[BDP]

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2002, 09:15:00 AM »
?

There have been many Star Trek multiplayer games.

Starfleet Command (based on starfleet battles ruleset) was one, which I played when it first game out and won several tournies on mplayer. It was pretty fun but got boring after awhile. That's pretty much the only Star Trek game I liked.
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Offline Octavius

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2002, 10:35:00 AM »
No star trek yet, but a Star Wars everquest type thing is in the works.  Looks to be something good.

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Octavius ]
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Offline LePaul

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2002, 11:22:00 AM »
I liked the Elite Forces one, which was pretty much a Quake3-in-Trek clothes.  But then again, I played the "Simpson's" wad in Doom 2 for weeks and loved that.

The Trek games suffer from big hype.  They have tall expectations to meet and usually fall way short, or are unplayably stupid.  I recall a preview of a computer-remake of the original series (name eludes me...) but it got canned.

I liked the TNG episodes after Roddenberry passed away.  Rick Berman did a great job with Voyager, even if some of the episodes felt like "NCC-90210".  Any "Kess" episodes turned me off.  I DID like the 2-parter with the Equinox though...as well as the several Borg run-ins.  

I keep hoping for a battle-bridge simulator, like they showed in ST 3   ;-)

Offline Serapis

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2002, 02:41:00 PM »
My first online kill was a Romulan Bird of Prey (which I hit with 3 photon torpedoes) back in the late 1970s in Empire, which ran on the old university PLATO system.  It was actually a top-down view RTS game played by sides for a conquest of the universe. No resource managment, just conquest. You could play Orion (small light, fast ships), Romulan (heavy armored, slow ships) or Klingon and Federation (balanced ships).

Also played a jet sim Airfight, which was practically unplayable for me at 2 seconds per frame with keyboard controls. Times shure have changed  :)

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Offline LtHans

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2002, 04:41:00 AM »
With all due respect, Nath, but I am talking full time online ONLY games.  You can keep the normal mulitplayer games like Counterstrike and such....I want games that last months and years.  Games where people have histories and are continous.  You can't build anything in games that last 5 minues.  I just doesn't mean anything in the end.

Star Wars may be nice, maybe not.  I probably won't play it because the only worthwhile character is the Jedi, but their supposed to be by far the hardest class to play in that game.  That, and no space combat, making the second most popular class...the starfighter pilot...nonexistant.  Its just not a ballanced setting for Online gamming.

Star Trek is, since it is designed around a handful of people who are ALL in control of equally powered ships, more or less.  Its all about the ships.

When it ever gets done, I would like these features in it.

1.  Ships with full (or mostly full) 3D interiors.  You can walk around your ship (pretty stupid if you couldn't).  Since there isn't a list as long as your arm of Star Trek ship designs, you can make up for it by having a very detailed ship interior.  In fact I would have to say such a thing would be mandatory.  Still, the list that exists from movies 1-6 isn't that big.  Hell, the Romulans never had a ship, and alot of races like the Orions never had a ship in ANY show.  I would choose a few of the designs from Klingon Academy/Star Fleet Command games.  Not those huge monsters though.  Heavy cruisers should be close to the top of the line (with one or two more past them).

2.  Ship size under player controlled by their rank AND size of their crew/guild.  You can play solo, but even if you reach the rank of Admiral of the Fleet, your not going to command a large ship (larger than a newbie, who ought to only be able to solo play using a runabout size ship).  I would probably use all the ships from Klingon Academy/Star Fleet Command games.

3.  Lots of room to explore.  Very little conquesting of that territory though.  Colonies are not built overnight you know.

4.  A hell of alot of random changes in the extreme frontier.  You should NEVER know what to expect there.

5.  The ocasional full bore war with a time limit on it (say a week).

6.  AI patroled borders in peace time so a Klingon BoP doesn't scout out Earth at his leisure.

7.  Lazy ships.  No fast turns or acceleations.  In fact, no joystick or even mouse control.  You TYPE in a course in 360 degrees, and an angle of climb/dive (thus all ships are on the same orientation).

8.  Warp speed fighting (done only with torpedos).  If you read the real Trekkie Tech books, thats what torpedos are for, since you outrun phasers which only travel the speed of light.

9.  Very "mission" based gameplay.  It isn't like hack and slash D&D.  In Star Trek you have to go discover something bad, transport something, go stop somebody, or get capture randomly and fight your way out.

10.  Skill based characters with RPG stats.

Hans.

P.S.  Karnak, I like you.  The Movie 1-6 ships are the best (the Klingon Bird of Prey has yet to be topped).

The Next Gen ships are not too shaby, but after the Defiant they went downhill.  I am not too fond of the new "Spoon" ships like Voyager and Enterprise-E.  The New Enterprise NX-01 is also too modern looking, not primitive like it is supposed to be.  It doesn't have to look stupid, just not that high tech.  A radio dish at least on the front of the engineering hull.  Kirk needed one.  A wire mesh one would be my choice.

[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: LtHans ]

Offline StSanta

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2002, 08:41:00 AM »
Heh ST is good when Q is in.

Otherwise, it's a goody goody soup, except with kirk, then the solution is FIRE ALL PHASERS! to every problem, be it Klingon enemies or a stuck elevator.

Offline dr1fter

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2002, 10:22:00 AM »
I remember playing star trek on a mainframe terminal what seems to be an eternity ago.  Had to wait for the paper to print out every time before issuing any commands.

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Offline Dinger

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Star Trek Online?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2002, 10:55:00 AM »
Hans, Nath is right.  There is Starfleet Command (SFC; SFC2; SFC2:OP) that has a lot of the functionality you're talking about.  In fact, it features a persistent-universe (customizable by server) campaign, complete with a strat model.  Players start out as Lt. Commanders with some small ship and gain prestige.  When new ships come out of the shipyard, players have to bid on them.
Anyway, you move from sector to sector, battling the enemies (of the Federation, the Klingon Empire, the ROmulans, the Gorn, and so on), investigating shipwrecks, scanning planets, or whatever (Evidently you can write your own missions).  The enemies can be human or AI.

The problem is, as Nath pointed out, it gets boring really quick.  Much of this is due to the design limitations of the game.

SFC is a painfully (not to be confused with painstakingly, which it is too, come to think of it) direct copy of an old, grease-pencil and hex-map game called "Star Fleet Battles", originally published in 1976 or so, and continuously updated.
SFB took as its inspiration the original TV series (and gasp, even the cartoon), but very quickly adapted to include the stuff from the movies.  The SFC graphics are heavily influenced by the movies.
The game is played in two dimensions (you get 3-D perspectives, but the ships bank and yaw; they never pitch. This certainly makes it a little odd, but since it is true to SFB, it allows them to use the boatload of ships designed and playtested over the past generation.
It's also hampered by the SFB campaign system, which was all about blowin' stuff up.
Oh yeah, and the "Dynaverse" MMP system, while cool in concept and flexibly scripted, doesn't offer enough variation for people to get hooked.  In the end, it comes back to the same sort of combat.
And finally, each individual battle/mission can only have 6 human players in it.


1. No, you can't walk around the interior of the ships.  Do you have any idea how much art time that'd take?  Sure it'd be cool, but what do you want to do with it?  As you note, SFC has a lot of ship designs; SFB has even more.  Most of these are not "monsters".  It's funny, but the *good* players like crappy ships.

2. SFC is prestige only.  So, if you've got a group of players together, what do you do?  Multicrew a starship?  What kinds of missions would you run to make that interesting?  What sort of functionality do you plan on modelling?

3-5 are not in SFC2
6. Is
7. Mouse control.  Typing's a little over the top for me.
8. My God, do you have a set of Vulcan ears you put on from time to time?  :D
9 and 10 are in SFC2, believe it or not.

So then, the folks who own the rights to Star Trek will say that many of your features are already in existence, and the others are simply not profitable.

In any case, as implied by your post, the big problem with doing anything like this for Star Trek is that people have certain expectations, whether it's TOS, the cartoon, the movies, TNG, DS9, Voyager or Enterprise.  The folks writing those scripts didn't care as much for continuity as the hard core fans.  And someone's gonna say "this isn't the Star Trek experience I've been dreaming of." Hell, most of them are gonna say that, and they're gonna let it get in the way of appreciating your game for what it is.

You're much better off taking your ideas and building a completely new game.  Since it's SF, you can design the universe and the laws of Physics around what the computer can simulate well.

Offline LtHans

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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2002, 06:00:00 AM »
I know what Star Fleet Command is.  I didn't like it.

Like I said before, I want a pay-to-play role playing game like EverQuest and Ultima Online.  First person, like DooM.  The difference here being you don't walk around Rivervale or Neriak city.  You walk around your ship, the U.S.S. (historic ship name) or another race's ship.

And or course there is stuff going on outside the ship.  You take your ship out of Spacedock and go out and explore.  Mayhem ensues.

One of my favorite FPS experiences was Kligon Honor Guard's level where you run around inside a Klingon Battle Cruiser that is traveling at warp speed.  I've been dying to do that again, but have the ship under me be more than just a "level" of a First Person Shooter.

I want a First Person Shooter AND a ship-to-ship combat simulator all in one game.  The only way this will ever be done is in a dedicated online game.  Single player offline games just focus on one or the other, as it isn't cost effective to do both in the same game.

And your right.  Getting a Trek game ballanced right, but still be "Trek" has been somewhat hard to do for some reason.  The games always end up being a compromise or such.  Interplay used to have the license.

Star Trek: Bridge Simulator is the next ship combat game comming out, and the license has been taken away from Interplay and given to Totally Games.  They did X-wing.  Hopefully they can do a better job than Interplay.

 

Hans.