<F> the VVS

[sqwiglly]

ok,so everyone seems to care that everyone has fun and the fights are ballanced.great.i thought we were supposed to win,my bad.

hey one of my guys broke his gear on rearm and had to miss out on the fun,can we make it so landings are easier?it would be more fun.it will also ballance out the differace between the new guys and the experianced ones

[TracerX]

Originally posted by sqwiglly
hey one of my guys broke his gear on rearm and had to miss out on the fun,can we make it so landings are easier?it would be more fun.it will also ballance out the differace between the new guys and the experianced ones

Basic takeoff and landing skills has always been a minimum requirement for participation.  We live with the dammage we sustain.  It happens equally to both sides anyway, and is not a balance issue.

[daddog]

Ramzey had it.

FSO its not about win/loose, but about fun

The problem is some can’t equate lose and fun together.

Dace also hit the nail on the head.

I believe it is the responsibilty of all squad COs to look out for the community as a whole.

Why not in the future require all orders and mission plans to be preapproved by a CM?

Furious that would work, but it just takes time from the CM’s. I don’t know, maybe they will do that from now on. Also we have a LOT of CM’s in Squad Ops anyway. His plan which was still within the rules did not catch anyone’s attention.

Why does there need to be a change?

Why Kurt? Let me give you an example.
Say we have the following plane sets.

Allied
F4U1D
TBM
SBD

Axis
A6M5
Kate
Val

We tell them they must use 2 of the 3 Aircraft listed. Allies use 99 F4U’s and 1 TBM. Do you think that will even be remotely fun/reasonable/fair to the Axis side?

Or how about this plane set?

Allied
P-51
B-17
P-47

Axis
Fw190D
Me109k
Me262

The Axis up 99 Me-262 and one 109k. Is that going to be fun for everyone?

This is a loop hole we need to look and an consider for future events.

We put in rules to help balance the game play. So as many as possible will have a fun and exciting engagement and want to come back to Friday Squad Ops. Some of you may think it is restricting inventiveness, resourcefulness, creativity and your right, but at what cost. I can tell you with little doubt that after nearly 5 years of being on the design end of Squad Ops if these rules were not in place we would not have the most popular event in Aces High.

Nor is this the first time we dealt with it. Something like this took place a couple years ago and for several months we put in... "You must put at least 20 pilots in x aircraft"... and so forth. That finally sliped away till this took place.

The intent of rotating the commanders is to ensure variety... Correct? Can I list for you all of the times I've been stuck flying an impossible mission of nothing but frustration because the frame commander had no vision?

No so much that but to spread the burden of responsibility to the C.O.’s in Squad Ops.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by daddog


 No so much that but to spread the burden of responsibility to the C.O.’s in Squad Ops.

You're the one on the other side daddog, so you probably know better than I do, but if 1 case like this happens in a year, is it really such a big problem that you need to redesign the system?

A certain failure rate is to be expected.

Every major turning point in military history is defined by a case like this... The red coats certainly weren't happy when the colonial rebels took to the trees and camouflage to snipe the brits... In war in those days it was cheating to hide, you were supposed to wear a bright colored uniform and stand in a line and die.

Tactics are always evolving.

[daddog]

Tactics are always evolving.

As is this event and for the better IMHO.

Every major turning point in military history is defined by a case like this... The red coats certainly weren't happy when the colonial rebels took to the trees and camouflage to snipe the brits... In war in those days it was cheating to hide, you were supposed to wear a bright colored uniform and stand in a line and die.

Oh I agree. Or when they used the machine gun in WWI. Some wanted to outlaw it. But unlike real life this is a game where we want as many as possible to have fun, not allow one side to dominate and slaughter the other, yet at the same time allow creativity. It is a fine balancing act to be sure. Only time will tell how it all pans out.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Kurt
The intent of rotating the commanders is to ensure variety... Correct?  

I think this has more to do with sharing the workload.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Furious
Why not in the future require all orders and mission plans to be preapproved by a CM?

The way I see it, this is already done in the form that targets are assigned.  This is to ensure that certain battle is going to take place.  In addition, we have the 60min time limit for the target to be attacked.

These are all learned from experience from the past, as we are doing now.  As for pre-approval, I am not sure if this is the way to go.  Having another cycle of approval will add work and time to the process for both the CMs and the COs, as daddog mentioned.  Given the time that people have to work with, CMs can give directives and it is up to the COs to digest them.  If it is not approved, the cycle has to be repeated...

[sqwiglly]

huh?

[Mystic2]

My problem with the whole thing was simple... and it was all 3 frames..... we tried to cover areas that was SUPPOSED to be attacked .. and we get 1 -3 planes flying around the area.... then we decide to advance, and get swarmed by lots of LA's..... and when people try to discuss it on this board, out comes the attitudes that is so rampant in the MA... MOST of us fly in the SEA to get away from the furballs, attitudes, etc in the MA.... guys who are constatnly fighting eachother in the MA come together in the SEA and actually act civilized.... (for the most part).  There always seems to be good natured ribbing, but thats to be expected.  The main complaint from the Axis side, and yes.. I was cic for the first frame, is the tap dancing in the grey area...... YES...... you made an ATTEMPT at attacking bases..... but mainly it was a massive furball, then during the last few minutes of the frame, thats when the attacks on the areas that needed were hit...... THAT is the main complaint...... and if you all would put ego's in check for 5 minutes...... you would see that is all that is being said.....nothing more..... thats all I have to say on this.....

[sqwiglly]

well,being that this is in a thread called vvs,theres a little more being said than that,but anyway,ive been flying in here for a while,and i never knew we were here to get away from anything.as a squad leader ive allways enjoyed tods.i love to see what our orders are and pass them on.its allways different.all ive ever known is we were supposed to follow our orders and kill?and at the end of it all my squad allways asks"so howed we do?"what do you tell your guys?"well we fought with honor and both sides enjoyed themselves"....?.....huh?i duno?maybee i missed it somwehere along the 4 years ive been in it but im just not seeing tods the way ....,most do.if its not about how well your squad does,why do we have a list of top kills?

[kevykev56]

It is about how well your squad does, no problem with that at all. But as Frame C.O.'s when we build orders we have a duty to the community as well as our squad and team.

The Duty is to provide orders that will allow our team to win the frame while at the same time provide an opportunity for all squads "Including Enemy" to engage in battle in a timely manner.

To exclude any squad from a frame is just not acceptable. As a frame C.O. this should be understood and ego should be set aside for a moment while planning. By all means crush your advisary but do It by keeping all squads in the game not just your own side.