Author Topic: Muslim hypocrisy? (Read 733 times)

-lynx- · « **on:** October 09, 2001, 05:25:00 AM »

Just listening to the radio here and noticing one very persistent trend through all the chairmen of muslim councils, doctors of muslims studies and suchlike both from the UK and abroad - they all keep saying that this war is an attack on Islam.

US and the UK are attacking a muslim state of Afganistan which is a self-confessed harbourer of terrorists. This is looked at as an attack on all muslims and Islam in general.

10-odd years ago another country attacked a muslim state. None of these people called for Jihad then, why - they were supporting the US led forces liberating Kuwait...

So, it appears to be OK when US and it's allies come to the rescue of Kuwait from Saddam Hussain. And now when US is trying to defend itself from state-sponsored terrorist attacks the very same people accuse it in attack on all the muslims... Hypocrisy of the highest order?

The same clerics and scholars alike profess that Islam is the religion of peace. I find it rather difficult to reconcile this statement with the very concept of Jihad - a holy war to rid the world of all infidels . I'm not a muslim nor am I a religious person so it must include me. It's peace alright...

Ther also have been reports that some young British muslims went to Pakistan in order to join the fight with their muslim "brothers" against the Western aggressors. The Home Office said they couldn't do anything to stop them from going, it's a free country blah-blah-blah, they have valid passports and planes are going freely to Pakistan... Don't know what the legal definition of treason is but surely fighting against your country's army during a war should be very close?

Naso · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2001, 05:45:00 AM »

Yes, this Euro-living mullah not taking position clearly in this thing (war?), or, worse, calling it an attack on the entire Islam, surprise me.

I mean, they are supposed to share a lot of beliefs, regarding the social pact, with us, but in some way the religion seem more important than the nation of witch they take part.

The common muslim people (normal, usual) I know is for peace, for end of terrorism, but the religious autorities seem to push more toward a "we vs. them" thing.

This remember me when in 1950-60, the catholic priests use to say in church that the "Commie ate the children" (it's true! unbelieveble but true).

I think the Islam need to evolve, like Cristians have done in last century, or will be very difficult to have peace in future.

-tronski- · « **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2001, 06:19:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -lynx-:
10-odd years ago another country attacked a muslim state. None of these people called for Jihad then, why - they were supporting the US led forces liberating Kuwait...

Islam, like christianity has many varied takes of the basic faith, and many different versions.

It is a well known fact that Saddam Hussein hates Muslim fundamentalists, including Osama Bin-Laden, and has on many occasions oppressed them. Part of this was demonstrated in he started the war with Iran and Khomeini. It was easy to garner support against Hussein in the gulf war because Sadam is very un-popular with the governments and religous leaders of the middle east.

Quote

Ther also have been reports that some young British muslims went to Pakistan in order to join the fight with their muslim "brothers" against the Western aggressors

A great number of Pakistanis share a similar ideology as the Taliban, and the Taliban garner great support in Pakistan.
During the balkans conflict it was not unusual for many young idealists to run off and join the fighting.

Quote

I think the Islam need to evolve, like Cristians have done in last century, or will be very difficult to have peace in future.

You obviously haven't seen the 'modern' christian and catholic churches values on homosexuality, abortion and contraception.

Islam and hypocrisy may seem to go hand in hand, but no more than most religions.

Tronsky

Naso · « **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2001, 06:26:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -tronski-:

You obviously haven't seen the 'modern' christian and catholic churches values on homosexuality, abortion and contraception.

Islam and hypocrisy may seem to go hand in hand, but no more than most religions.

Tronsky

Yes, you are right

Well, I meant "still in evolution".

Btw, I agree with you.

Daff · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2001, 07:10:00 AM »

"Just listening to the radio here and noticing one very persistent trend through all the chairmen of muslim councils, doctors of muslims studies and suchlike both from the UK and abroad - they all keep saying that this war is an attack on Islam."

This is pretty much exactly the opposite of what I've heard. The representatives I've seen & heard have spent most of their time distancing themselves from Bin Laden and the Taleban.

Daff

Cabby44 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2001, 07:59:00 AM »

Quote:

"You obviously haven't seen the 'modern' christian and catholic churches values on homosexuality, abortion and contraception. "

Hmmm. So, if someone agrees/shares the values of the "modern Christian and Catholic(what's the difference?)churches" they haven't, as you say, "evolved"?? Evolved into what??? Since when does one have to "evolve" in order to accept behavior they find reprehensible and/or stupid??

Terrorism comes in many forms, and one form of it is Liberal Hypocrisy......

Cabby

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Cabby44 ]

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Cabby44 ]

-lynx- · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2001, 08:41:00 AM »

Daff - I did not say they supported Bin Ladden or Taliban. They all sounded "against terrorism/pro peace" kinda folk. But the US led armed assault on Afganistan is uniformally described as an attack on Islam. They all say that more "diplomatic routes to resolve the conflict" and "bringing those responsible to justice by legal means" should have been used but it all sounds like a joke. What diplomatic means with the country that's got no diplomatic relationships with anyone? Legal means? US asked to extradite Bin Ladden. They (Taliban) asked Bin Ladden to leave the country. Sick joke. "Oops, sorry - he just wouldn't go - we asked, all we could do..."

Some "peace lovers" were even talking about how insensitive Americans were when they asked for extradition - it appears to be against muslim religion to hand over anyone who is a guest and similar malarky. He is a criminal, mass murderer, whose involvement in many terrorist acts is beyond any doubt for chrissakes! If those are the rules over there - why all the criminals in the world should head for Afganistan, it's safe there... Oh - hold on, it's not for "normal" murderers, it's for a select gang of "muslim brothers" who also happened to be involved in terrorism activities against the States and other countries. That "against the States" thing seem to be justifying just about anything these creeps do. "Hypocrites" is the word...

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: -lynx- ]

Toad · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2001, 10:35:00 AM »

Which of the other major religions advocates killing anyone who doesn't believe in that particular religion?

Which of the other major religions confers instant martyrdom and eternal glory to those who die fighting "unbelievers"?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2001, 10:37:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:
Which of the other major religions confers instant martyrdom and eternal glory to those who die fighting "unbelievers"?

I believe Jim Jones had alittle commune in S.A. that followed a similiar forum.

Defiance · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2001, 11:06:00 AM »

Hiya's,
In the UK too i seem to hear a majority voicing against attrocities caused in the USA though some will not condemn it

What i find Hypoctitical is this........

America is part of NATO an alliance to protect and help member states generally formed under the concensess that if one member state is attacked then it's all for one and one for all
Now america is attacked and an attrocity takes place, Now when allies form around their partner and offer support against these attacks what happens ? The terrorist sponsors and shielders call it an attack on "all" muslims !!!
But as for America to be aided by it's allies against sponsored terrorism they answer with a "jihad"

Well how hypocritical

It's ok for them to aid/sponsor attrocities but as soon as someone makes a stand against them they shout "jihad" or "it's an attack on all of them" Phooey,
It's a stand against down right terrorist attrocities perpatrated by cowards who lack peaceful convictions because they realise their ideas are not actually felt the same way by the MAJORITY of their own kind, Thus they resort to terrorist acts to gain coverage and then milk sympathy after having retaliatory action took against them

Def

-tronski- · « **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2001, 12:07:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Cabby44:
Quote:

"You obviously haven't seen the 'modern' christian and catholic churches values on homosexuality, abortion and contraception. "

Hmmm. So, if someone agrees/shares the values of the "modern Christian and Catholic(what's the difference?)churches" they haven't, as you say, "evolved"?? Evolved into what??? Since when does one have to "evolve" in order to accept behavior they find reprehensible and/or stupid??

Terrorism comes in many forms, and one form of it is Liberal Hypocrisy......

Cabby
]

Actually you missed my point, but then I doubt anything except your obvious right wing ideals aren't going allow anything to be examined that doesn't fit your fundamentalist views.

Tronski

Dowding · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2001, 01:37:00 PM »

Lynx, I do not know where you get your news from or how much TV you watch, because I've not seen any representatives of ANY Islamic council or representatitive group call the attacks on Afghanistan an attack on Islam.

Please post your sources.

Toad, I suggest to you that you read the Koran. Out of academic interest. Maybe you'll learn something new, maybe not.

My copy is already on order, since although I know the basics, I'd be interested to know the specific text a little more. I'm sure it's also as good a story as the Christian bible.

Maybe then I could get a better grasp of how the fundamentalists justify their actions.

-lynx- · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »

Quote

Please post your sources.

It's not from TV, I listen to the Radio 4 otw to/from work. Loads of interviews there with just about anyone they can find. You have to be deaf and blind (if you're watching TV that is) not to hear/see "it's an attack on Islam" whining. I do remember Gulf War - there was none of those then.

I am not a religious person but find myself agreeing with Toad above (scary thought

).

Loads of "moderate" muslims are asking for "proof" of OSB guilt and then they will support the war. Have they been somewhere other then this planet for the last few years? Oh please... If they call this person "their brother" I don't fancy being related to them.

Tumor · « **Reply #13 on:** October 09, 2001, 03:40:00 PM »

This war is and will be referred to as an attack on Islam for one simple reason, to further the political agenda's of Islamic extremeist/fundamentalists. Folks, the bottom line is, until Isreal as a Jewish "state" is dead and gone, this will be an issue the world will have to put up with from the afore mentioned Islamic types. Even if they were to succeeed in removing Isreal so the palestinians can move in, we will STILL have to put up with these people trying to force what THEY believe is Allah's will upon the rest of the world.
Here's Tumor's take on the situation....anyone who wants to call this a war on Islam, GO RIGHT THE F*@K AHEAD FOOL, YOU CAN DIE LIKE THE REST! Personally, I'm sick of hearing it...more cannon fodder if you ask me.

Tumor the pissed

Hangtime · « **Reply #14 on:** October 09, 2001, 03:40:00 PM »

Seems to me that the leading Muslim Clerics of this world continued silence or 'show us proof' tapdance is speaking volumes on Muslim intent... particularly when you read the 'statement' released by Arab TV featuring our favorite towel headed trash talker and his Hezbollah cronie.

Bush's "with us or against us" rehtoric is also chilling the Clerics..

Question: Are we in fact looking at a "Civilization War" in the making?? It's obvious to me that Osama sure wants one. Will the Clerics give it to him?