It's the guns more than anything

[Shifty]

Hey Storch.

We flew Axis tonight in FM2's , once squadtime was over MVJester and myself went back over to Allied. The performance of the Hurri II , and the FM2 are very close. The 109E and 110s were able to disengage if they didnt blow their E and get away from the Hurris.

Not being a big RAF guy I assumed the 20MM's on the HurriII would be the same as the SpitMkV. Those freakin hurriII guns are killer. If you graze something it goes down. I can see how that would be a constant pain in the rear. Although I really didnt notice as much while flying the FM2 , because I get shot down alot anyway. When I noticed was when I actually flew the HurricaneII. I couldn't believe all the kills I would get with just a few hits.

Now I see why there are so many of them flying right now.

[Slash27]

It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Slash27
It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.

too bad it isn't the same 20 you find on any of the 109's

[TexMurphy]

As Slash said its the same 20mm guns but you got 4 of them instead of the 2 that you got on the spits.

The is actually quite robust and doesnt melt quite as easily as the 109.

I was acutally quite suppriced to see how many shots I had to land on a FM2 inorder for it to go down. I actually wondered if the plane gun damage was tuned down in this setting.

The 109 dies to a single snapshot burt. On the FM2 you actually have to land two or three bursts. Its a tough little bugger.

But yes you really HAVE TO make sure the Hurricane doesnt get his guns pointing on you.

Tex

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Slash27
It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.

I realize that there are only two on the spit while theres four on the hurriII.
Still the Hurri II seems much more leathel, taking far less hit to destroy a plane.

[Reschke]

Well when you pull the trigger you are sending 4 rounds each time out at the enemy a/c; unlike the others that only have 2 rounds going out bound. To me more rounds on target increases the chances of lethality in the shot.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Shifty
I realize that there are only two on the spit while theres four on the hurriII.
Still the Hurri II seems much more leathel, taking far less hit to destroy a plane.

rate of fire maybe?
seems like the bullets leap outa the 2c wings at a pretty fast rate

the hurri2c makes for boring game play as to stay alive in any engage other than a one v one and that one in the hurri2c being less than good, you have to stay fast and high, bore & snore the other guy to death
to me .. though b&z may be historic correct - it does not equal fun - if I am doing it or on the lower rec end

OM just added the il2 and p40e to the allied side and the 109f to the axis
he stated that to remove the hurri2c would lopside to the axis as nothing could stand up to the 109f. I must disagree as I have had my arse handed to me many times by a good p40e pilot while I was in a 109f.

the sooner the hurri2c leaves this setup, the better

[straffo]

Originally posted by Slash27
It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.

Actually the Tempest* got mark V instead of II like in the spits+ typhoon , and I'm not sure of the 38 but I think the american made hispano had another reference.



* early Tempest had mk II but the AH one got mkV

[Grits]

P-40E PWNS!!

[storch]

yes shifty if the 110/109 driver plays smart and maintains his altitude he can disengage but has to remain out at about 1000m or so or he risks getting free laser surgery for his hemmoroids.  if you lose significant alt advantage it's all over in anything other than the endangered list 1 v 1.  all I've seen is droves of hurricanes and all with altitude.  some guys were coming it at 20k.  while it is true that two can play that game if a person has one hour to spend in the game taking 15 minutes to climb doesn't make sense.  I wonder if some of the intelligent guys will post a combat performance comparisson about now.  I'm sure it's so lopsided that perhaps the AvA staff will consider limiting the use of this way overmodelled ground attack bird in it's current iteration.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Eagler
rate of fire maybe?
seems like the bullets leap outa the 2c wings at a pretty fast rate

the hurri2c makes for boring game play as to stay alive in any engage other than a one v one and that one in the hurri2c being less than good, you have to stay fast and high, bore & snore the other guy to death
to me .. though b&z may be historic correct - it does not equal fun - if I am doing it or on the lower rec end

OM just added the il2 and p40e to the allied side and the 109f to the axis
he stated that to remove the hurri2c would lopside to the axis as nothing could stand up to the 109f. I must disagree as I have had my arse handed to me many times by a good p40e pilot while I was in a 109f.

the sooner the hurri2c leaves this setup, the better

Maybe it is the rate of fire. I'm basing this on my aging eyesight, and reflexes. My gunnery is terrible, and getting worse not better. If I could spend money on lazic surgery , a new computer, and turn back time a bit I could shoot like I could 5 to 10 years ago. I don't get many hits usually so thats why I'm amazed how easy you can kill in the HurriII. Maybe it has something to do also with the fact that its a great turner but I don't spend near as much time blacked out as I do in a spit, or N1K2 , or zeke.

It's like AARP designed a plane for us old farts.

I don't know how much the HurriII was used on the EF , but if OM doesn't pull it maybe he should limit it at least. . The same way the FM2 is. However if he pulls the HurriII, he should pull the FM2 as well. I'm going to the P-40E now that it's out . This is one of the reasons I've never really enjoyed the Finn/Russ ,  the Allied aircraft stable is everything but Russian. It's really come to light with the RPS not having anything Russian to put up in the early portion.

Just my opinon , but the RPS should be used on a larger theater of the war. If you want to run setups like Finn/Ruus , or the Med limit them to one week, and use the traditional setups.

I also think the RPS would be fun if you included all Axis, and all Allied planes in it. It would probably attract more people again. The numbers seem to really be down with this setup.

Still AvA Crew , and Finn guys, I think you've all done a great job with this. It just seems to not be quite as fun as the last setup.

[Charge]

"but has to remain out at about 1000m"

Exactly, flying a Hisso bird I consider anything under 800yds worth the attempt.

Flying a 151/20 bird the same figure is 400-500yds but I have been shot down from distances of 600yds by a LW bird.

For example in Malta scenario I always ensured I had considerble advantage in either speed, height or angles to get outta the Hisso reach in time.

See the Furball's Malta film (was at DokGonzo's site). That is what I'm talking about.

-C+

[storch]

the russians received 2,952 Hurricanes mostly MkIIb and MkIV  I'm not sure they even received any MkIIc as they were pressed for use in NAfrica at that time as the excellent ground attack platform that they were.

The hurricane was historically a phenomenal turner it could easily out turn both the spitfire and the 109 but it was slow and had a terrible climbrate.  by the middle of 1942 it's days as a pure fighter were over and they served on delivering sterling pereformance as fighter/bombers.

There is now way such a draggy design could possibly retain E the way it does in AH, but then again it is allied. we can also delve on the hisso issue once again if we must.

[Bronk]

I'll say it again fly MkI against MkII . As long as you have equal e on merge, and avoid the ho you should be on the MkIIs six in 3 turns.

This is if the pilots are of equal skill.










Bronk

[storch]

Bronk, some of us are in JG type squads and prefer to play in LW stuff.  I'm sure others don't mind flying flying the Hurri v Hurri arena.  Others of us might find it a bit tiresome after about 1 engagement.  If you don't mind I'll skip the set up until the 109G2/G6s arrive when we can have something that will compete with an early war ground attack platform.