Author Topic: DA Now Stinks  (Read 5798 times)

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #90 on: March 03, 2006, 12:45:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by e=mc2
believe me I am not taking anything away from the TA and the hard work the trainers do.  However I have spent a good amout of time in both places and have learned the most from the non training aces when they were not even trying to teach anything.  Those Aces that are in the DA for duels with other of the same calibur in between those explosions. The Dueling Arena is essentially the most intense 5 min of a H2H over and over again. It is specialize area were I have done most of my taining.

the sudden shock of being in the Tower helps to cement the memory of what you did wrong...  IE: touching HOT stove.
the human brain is hard wired to be practical in what it remembers.


e=mc2, I need to clear up something here, I do not think you are taking anything away from the TA or from the trainers, Sir.......

I am glad you have learned in a specialized way, which is I guess what you are wanting. I am not knocking you for this either.

I just do not see where there is much difference between the TA vs the DA except for the Bing/Bang/Boom..... I understand the thought of touch hot stove get burned or die and be in tower.........
in the TA you get pings/you hear them/you see flashes/hitsprites but you do not have to waste time taking off again and flying back to the student/instructor...... so my personal view is people rather train, fight and kill ( without penalty of having a bad score ) and not use the designated Training arena....... is all good, I just throwing in my 2 cents ( well my 50 cents;)  ) like everyone else.......my bad for thinking u was a shades.......

Good Luck ~S~
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Creton

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« Reply #91 on: March 03, 2006, 01:25:20 AM »
TC,
I dont mean that the DA is the best place to train,but in the world of immediate gratification,people want to know that they progressing,and the BOOM lets them know thatwhat they just learned, works.
I never asked AIRVENT to train me ,it just worked out that every night we were on at same time and we constatly dueled each other ,because of the ever growing population of AH2 ,the training arena has new players who ask lots of questions ,requiring lots of time,and the trainer isnt able to devote time to an understudy of the game.The training arena has and does serve a very great place in the advancement of new players and, yes, even old vets.I requested to be a trainer in the TA but was turned down by GHOST who said all spots were filled.There isnt a greater feeling than getting someone started in the game and watching them advance to the place were they give you a good fight.
I have awhole library of info that I give out to all people who ask for it,it deals with ACM and E management,I have spent lots of time to looking this stuff up and I have farmed this info out to my whole squad and several other squads who were struggling in the MA.
I think that people who are "vets" of the game should step up to the plate and help newer players get goin.This was a hot topic several months ago when everyone was whineing about the hordes and hoing and everything else.The MA will never change or become better if people who have the potential to help dont step up and do something about it.
No foul done to e=mc2
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 01:30:34 AM by Creton »

Offline AutoPilot

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« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2006, 01:36:20 AM »
Quote
when you grow older you will learn that the conspiracy you hang on so tightly too, is in ya head........



That is so totally funny,you guys made whels a trainer,who by the way you never even see in the TA.Is he teaching them Vulching,Spawn Camping,And the basic essentials of cherry-Picking?


As i have said before,i see TC in the other arena's more than i do in the TA.The only person i see in there the most is Fuzeman.

The DA has been out of hand for a long time,from dweebs sitting in the manned ack guns,too the dweebs that keep vulching you because you keep killing them and thier friends with relative ease.

DA = Dweeb Arena

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #93 on: March 03, 2006, 01:51:46 AM »
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DA = Dweeb Arena


Then it should be perfect for you, shouldnt it?

Offline gatt

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« Reply #94 on: March 03, 2006, 02:05:55 AM »
DA based clan? Wow! :rolleyes:
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Sloehand

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« Reply #95 on: March 03, 2006, 02:25:02 AM »
I made my original comments rather peevishly, immediately after trying the "new" DA for the third time and getting the same experience as before -- essentially getting gang banged by 5 "red" icons while still at the "green" base.  Don't know who they were, but what we had wasn't a duel by any interpretation.  As I've said before, it was just a mini-MA encounter, which was what I was trying to get away from by leaving the MA.
Anyway, I was frustrated, a little angry, and wanted to spark some comment, and hopefully get some response from HiTech on the topic, which I haven't seen on any of the related threads.
As for the thought about training as it relates to the DA.  Yes, the TA is the best place for newbies to learn the basics of AH flying.  In my early career here, Ren gave me some good starting points, but I couldn't always find him, or another free trainer when I was on, and it was always with a group of 2 or 3 newbs.  One-on-one time was limited, and honestly, I didn't know to ask for a private appointment.  
However, I soon discovered the DA, and learned who the better pilots were by getting my butt kicked.  But unlike the kiddy vulchers, I was respectful of other people's fights and always polite.  I soon learned to ask what I was doing wrong and what would help me.  I never, ever had a veteran pilot refuse either to give me pointers, constructively critique my ACM, or even offer one-on-one training, inviting me to join and fly with them.  I've been schooled to a greater or lesser degree by alot of great guys and sticks -- Phish, Hemp, Wittmann, Creton, Sniper, Wolfala, Chark, and many others.
In martial arts, the primary rule of training is, seek out someone of a higher belt to spar and train with.  This is what the DA provides to help people learn ACM and other secrets of Aces High.  No appointments, no waiting, and real time success or failure measurement.
Its not a replacement for the TA, nor a repetition of the TA, but rather a suppliment and useful compliment to the TA.  And, in addition, its a place to duel to test your mettle, do 'live' squad practices, or rap with friends and MA opponents.
The current solution ends most all of that and I think the much greater majority of pilots who use it would even prefer the teenie/vulcher/cherrypickers to leaving the DA the way it is now.
And, I also would volunteer to act as an un-paid, concientious observer/moderator, as I spend roughly a third of my average 4 to 6 hours a day flying time in the DA anyway.  At least I did before kill shooter was turned on.
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Offline Mugzeee

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« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2006, 02:28:28 AM »
The TA is great for some training. But there is a false sense of security developed if too much time is spent there with the lethality settings and such. The DA is actually the best place to train for the MA in that you will get a better feel for how much it takes to bring an opponent down.
 I still would love it if HTC made it possible to shoot a player down in the TA with normal lethality settings and then the player shot down would just reappear in flight right where they left off, like the drones in the Offline mode do now.

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #97 on: March 03, 2006, 04:51:02 AM »
I'm a little unclear about what in particular your "clan" is missing out on now. Being truly "DA based" makes me wonder...what exactly were you training for? You learn stuff as you train, but then what do you plan to do with it?


The fact that you used the word "clan" sends me a couple messages. I'd bet that the bulk of your team experience has been in first person shooters like quake or counterstrike. Since the only thing you can do in DA is get kills, not tactical team captures etc, I have to wonder....are you and your clan in fact part of the vulch-o-matic free for all guys?

If you are, then to be honest I'm glad you have a problem with the current system!
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Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #98 on: March 03, 2006, 05:14:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AutoPilot
That is so totally funny,you guys made whels a trainer,who by the way you never even see in the TA.Is he teaching them Vulching,Spawn Camping,And the basic essentials of cherry-Picking?


As i have said before,i see TC in the other arena's more than i do in the TA.The only person i see in there the most is Fuzeman.

The DA has been out of hand for a long time,from dweebs sitting in the manned ack guns,too the dweebs that keep vulching you because you keep killing them and thier friends with relative ease.

DA = Dweeb Arena


Good Morning, Groucho................

exactly what I meant.............and I guess "whels" is not one of our communitys better / "well liked by all" players involving GV's, bombing, ship /fleet control and strategy play type training and has lots of knowledge regarding the game inside & out? hmm?  AutoPilot is much more the leet  kingsman on this subject...... he is well respected by the AH Community as well, and never complains or shows his bad side to anyone.......always the gentleman........


As for my TA time, thank you, I needed someone to keep up with my hours , is much appreciated...   :aok


now you go and call everyone that flys the DA, Dweebs, that will not win you any acceptance from others, Groucho, may want to rephrase your comments/thoughts regarding .......
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 05:21:18 AM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2006, 05:22:54 AM »
Great post there Sloehand ( the one right above Mugz )

Mugz, that would be a well appreciated added feature if we could have the same as the drones........in the TA.......


hope people don't think I am DOWN , on the DA, I go to the DA myself, and have helped others when they asked how or why a certain fight turned out the way it did.......
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 05:28:08 AM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline 2bighorn

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« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2006, 05:40:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
I'm a little unclear about what in particular your "clan" is missing out on now. Being truly "DA based" makes me wonder...what exactly were you training for? You learn stuff as you train, but then what do you plan to do with it?

The fact that you used the word "clan" sends me a couple messages. I'd bet that the bulk of your team experience has been in first person shooters like quake or counterstrike. Since the only thing you can do in DA is get kills, not tactical team captures etc, I have to wonder....are you and your clan in fact part of the vulch-o-matic free for all guys?

If you are, then to be honest I'm glad you have a problem with the current system!
Gosh, it really doesn't matter what some are training for nor how they'll apply that. How in hell can you say that you're glad about something you don't have clue about?

The point is that many come in DA for different reasons, some for squad training, some for duels, some for mini furballs, bombing, GV battles, and probably for that reason there are many different types of fields for the above mentioned activities.

Who'd really care as long as people are having fun.

The problem is that flood of two weekers and even some vets are coming into DA to interfere in others people fun. They jump into fights without asking, they are vulching, cherry picking, bad mouthing and consequently ruin fun for everyone.

Due to the complaints HTC applied quick fix, ie. killshooter was turned on.

Unfortunately that did not stop those peeps, they still do the nasties and at the same time fun of those well behaved majority is limited because of the killshooter.

Majority of the DA regulars want some system in place which will limit those who ruin the experience for all the others, without getting limited themselves in their activities.

How hard is to understand that?

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2006, 06:47:46 AM »
Didnt mean to tee you off...if you're not part of the vulching/free-for-all-whether-you-want-it-or-not crowd!

There's no reason to be upset with me: If you take a minute to re-read what I wrote, you'll see that the only people I dissed were the troublemakers.  Never judged anybody else, and my musing about the purpose of a DA only squad was simply to form a logical foundation for the elements that followed. Its how I learned to write what they call "argumentative essays", which are really just debates on paper.

So again, just calm down a bit, man. Read and consider whats really there, not what you rpojected into it.

And as for my not having a clue, realize that my text was written to the thread starter, the only guy who actually referred to a "clan". I've gone to the DA now and again myself for quick fights, practice, and training (both giving and receiving). I've exoerienced the vulch and unwanted FFA problem, and I've taken turn hammering those who wouldnt get the idea and play fair.

I'm not quite a clueless dolt. (No fair asking my teens for their opinions, tho!)


The Killshoot is a quick fix, that has the benefit of immediate implementation. It is a change, and even good changes require us to adapt....so think also about some of the suggestions in the thread. Just changing the end rules of fights so the winner is the one who "kills" himself (thru KS) would work out for me; could it for you? Making the vulchers come from an enemy base WILL help -- it tells everyone who they are (red icon) so a quick friendly swarm can hit em before there's trouble, and it makes them wait 5-7 minutes after getting killed before having another chance to be evil. Fort Short Attention Span Theater guys, that may be enough to get 'em to move along.

Getting a whole nother group of appropritaet guys to have admin privileges woudl be a major headache for HT, adn will take time to set up and later to monitor. (I'm sure that HTC personnell devote time regularly to reviewing the monitors' performance... and this would be another layer of that each day.) Also, the sad fact is that many potential admins dont really have the temprament for it -- the job requires the patience of Job and calmness under fire without a hint of the "oh yeah, we'll see who's boss" attitude that leads to overreacting and uneven enforcement.  The Ta dudes cant stretch much further, and there's already a shortfall in coverage for their primary purpose. Examining myself with an honest eye, I dont think I could "keep an even keel " enough to be a good monitor. And, to be blunt, your response here implies that you might have some struggles in the role too. *No offense intended -- I'm irish/german, and have to watch out for the sterotypical stubbornness and low boiling temperature!

So yeah, there was a problem, and the solution put in quickly isnt perfect. It was needed, as eveidneced by experience and by the sheer number of teenie new posters complaining about losing vulch opportunities. But KS can work for now if we adapt some (as most of the vets have said), and we can look for a better solution in the meantime.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 06:58:40 AM by Simaril »
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Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #102 on: March 03, 2006, 06:48:55 AM »
creton would blitz akak in a 1 on 1 fight in a matter of seconds.
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Naytch

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« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2006, 06:52:01 AM »
I know u guys hate teens posting about DA, but this diff... Err... what did HT do to 'destroy' the DA, as I've been reading so much about? I logged in just now fine...

Sorry again, but just curious...

Offline Ghosth

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« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2006, 07:03:33 AM »
Funny I had a guy complaining in the TA last night about the death of the DA.

After talking it through with him it became abundantly clear what has really changed in the DA.  Its not the 1 on 1 dueling. That still happens just fine, just takes minor amount of coordination.

What everyone seems to be so upset about is not dueling or about dueling. Its about the Free for All. We used to get the FFA in the TA until HT after endlless complaints turned the damage down until no one died.

FFA promptly moved into the DA and set up residence.
The Dueling arena was never set up to be for 15-30 people doing free for all.
It was setup for dueling, 1 on 1 prearranged duels for fun, ladder, or ego's.
The DA is not dead with KS on, but the Free for All sure is.

So I have one question for all of you who are upset with the current state of affairs. WHY the DA? You want anything goes, well thats the Main sir's.
You want a free for all, just head to the main, find the biggest red dar bar and jump into it. Your free to vulch, shoot, bomb, as you please.

So if your in the DA for a FFA, instead of the main, you seriously need to ask yourself WHY!  

Last, for all of you who have frequented the DA for the last 2 years this is on your own shoulders.  Last sunday I walked into the DA and in less than 10 minutes had things straightened out. And I did it with no powers, no .eject, nothing you don't have.

I did it with 3 things, sheer force of personality, AHfilm, and a phone number.
You all have had your chance, and failed to police the area enough to keep it the way it was. So now its time for something different.

I'm sure we have not heard the last from HTC on this.  

Have patience.