Author Topic: Republicans idea of defense?  (Read 1262 times)

Offline LePaul

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2001, 03:00:00 PM »
....was gonna post, but recalled Jihad is a kook who LOVES his liberals...so, why bother.  Its more fun to watch him writher in agony while Dubya is President.

And that, is priceless  :P

Offline Eagler

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2001, 03:02:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by jihad:
Ya know whats really funny about this?

Remember all the ratpooplican wailing and gnashing of teeth about Clinton/Democrats gutting the armed forces prior to the election?

Now look at what the slack jawed idiot in the White House wants to do.
   ;)

[ 08-01-2001: Message edited by: jihad ]

Bush is just transfering the funds, spending more but wisely. He's not sending troops to BFE to play cops with groups who are happier killing each other. He's not giving our naval bases to his political contributors his buddies the chinese. He's building a stronger, modern military the world will respect/fear not laugh at as it has been the last 8 years...
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Offline batdog

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2001, 03:22:00 PM »
Clinton was a total POS. Hell, he did a fat and ugly intern while sober,LOL.

 xBAT
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline jihad

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2001, 04:21:00 PM »
....was gonna post, but recalled Jihad is a kook who LOVES his liberals...so, why bother.  Its more fun to watch him writher in agony while Dubya is President.
And that, is priceless  :P


Where are the 'debating skills' you bragged about once upon a time?

So far your skills are as much in evidence as dubyas intellect. <non existant>

I really enjoy tweaking you republinazis, your so ideologically driven old adolph would have loved you  ;)

Offline Yoj

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2001, 04:23:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler:
all a military would have to do is take out there commerce centers, electricity, communications, major bridges - roadways etc with "smart" bombs. Blockade any inbound aid... surrender is guaranteed. They may need to overthrown their current gov, but the ppl would demand it..

That's exactly what Goering told Hitler about England.  And of course, England capitulated, Germany turned east and beat Russia, America settled up with Japan and the Third Reich stood a thousand years.  Wait a minute....

- Yoj

Offline Fatty

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2001, 04:31:00 PM »
Re: comparison with Clinton, there is a very large difference between not being able to adequately supply your standing army, and reducing the size of your standing army.

I still am utterly amazed at a left wing complaint about proposed military reduction.  Honestly though I voted for Bush I was afraid he would buckle when it came to military spending, and needed cutbacks.  Does this mean you would prefer a massive buildup?

Yoj, if Hitler's aim was simply to defend Germany's borders, it would have been sufficient.  You're not hoping to invade Canada and Mexico in a grand scheme of world conquest are you?

Offline miko2d

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2001, 05:13:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yoj:
That's exactly what Goering told Hitler about England.

 Considering that Hitler never intended to fight England, there is little surprise he was not ready to do so when England declared war on him.
 No country was able to use aviation to destroy strategic targets until both long-range bombers and long-range escorts were available to conduct daytime raids - well into 1944.

 miko

Offline jihad

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2001, 05:15:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fatty:
Re: comparison with Clinton, there is a very large difference between not being able to adequately supply your standing army, and reducing the size of your standing army.

I still am utterly amazed at a left wing complaint about proposed military reduction.  Honestly though I voted for Bush I was afraid he would buckle when it came to military spending, and needed cutbacks.  Does this mean you would prefer a massive buildup?

Why do you call me left wing, is it because I think dubyas a slack jawed fool? <I wonder if his parents were brother and sister>

I don't want a massive buid up, but I do think its foolish to reduce the size of our armed forces instead of properly funding what we already have.

Gee whiz weapons cannot replace our armed forces or the ability to project power in more than one area of conflict at a time.

My complaint is the shortness of dubyas *vision*, all he seems interested in is feeding the big defense contractors at the expense of proven defense capability.

Offline Hangtime

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2001, 05:17:00 PM »
Technology is great.. hell I make some of the military's neatest new toys... RPV's.

But reality rears it's ugly head... you don't win a war of attrition with technology. By the end of the gulf war we were OUT of Tomahawks, could no longer load med/long range AA missiles on our fighters and were criticly short of everything from Durandels to Mavericks.

Towards the end, we were dumping 30 year old iron eggs; eyeball aimed...

How we gonna do against China? India?? The CFS? Survival means we must HONOR THE THREAT. That does not mean we attack; that means we continue to project what any possible future agressor could do; and plan accordingly.

Toys are neat.. but yah still need an Army; a Navy, A Marine Corps, and Air Force; all fully equipped and trained, with logistical support consistent with the mission... and that mission remains "take the fight TO the enemy".

We can't do that by cutting bases; cutting transport A/C, cutting the Navy back, and REDUCING any damn thing at ALL.. YES.. the potential threat remains, and dammit that means we continue to BUILD, continue to EQUIP and continue to SUPPORT the LARGEST MOST EFFECTIVE BEST TRAINED MILITARY IN THE WORLD... lets hope it remains OURS.

Period.  

Bush; you fediddlein dipshit; here's my $300.00 back. Buy the boys some gawdamned bullits.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline skernsk

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2001, 05:25:00 PM »
What is a republican??

Is that the same as a Liberal Canadian?

Offline Fatty

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2001, 05:42:00 PM »
What kind of situation do you forsee requiring 1.4 million regular forces (not counting reservists)?  Short of a land war with China or Inda, I don't really see a lot.  If anyone does plan on sending an occupying force to Asia, we're going to need a hell of a baby boom first.

Lacking a war, what we need is a modestly sized, well trained, well funded standing army, together with the technology and research that should a the situation arise we have the ability to raise and supply an army.  The world seems tired of the US playing policeman, and I'm certainly tired of paying for it.  Decrease the size, increase per/soldier funding, and increase R&D.

Offline Mighty1

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2001, 06:38:00 PM »
I love to hear some of the more retarded Democrats in here squeaking. :rolleyes:

Say what you will but that "slack jawed idiot" beat your best so what does that make you guys?    :p
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Offline Nashwan

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2001, 06:40:00 PM »
Quote
No country was able to use aviation to destroy strategic targets until both long-range bombers and long-range escorts were available to conduct daytime raids - well into 1944.
Hamburg, 1943

Offline jihad

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2001, 07:11:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by skernsk:
What is a republican??

Is that the same as a Liberal Canadian?

Nah..they're the offspring of the Cletus and Lurleens of the world.

 
   :p

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: jihad ]

Offline Sorrow[S=A]

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Republicans idea of defense?
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2001, 12:14:00 AM »
It's interesting to see who comes out of the woodwork when the army is threatened.

In this case it's funnier to see who takes what stance. Face it folks, this isn't arriving on your doorstep out of nowhere. Gen. Chung (sp?) was establishing the basis of the rapid deployment doctrine for the last 6 years. The Gulf war ended with the US command structure quietly agreeing that they needed massive and fast changes before ever deploying another combat force of that level. Military Opfor was proving for the last 10 years that US armed forces operating without the full infrastructure of armor/airforce/artillery was incredibly vulnerable to ending up in a situation where casualties were on parity to the enemies and accomplishment of even minor objectives would lead to unacceptable losses.

Now your army realises it has to adapt. Schwartzkopf (sp?) wrote after the gulf war of an overwhelming need to change the trend of american armed forces sustaining huge losses and defeats entering into a major conflict and adapting to achieve victory. His beliefs were probably one of the core reasons why the Gulf war was the only conflicts of the modern century US armed forces broke that trend.

Now your armed forces are going to try and adapt before the next major conflict. Besides their training and organization they are going to use the Land Warrior program to give them technical advantages over their foes. I have seen this dismissed as "60 pounds of electronics does not a good soldier make" which is false. It's a centralizing of the current GPS and Night Vision equipment in use into less bulky and easier to use packages. It's not meant to replace the elements of a good soldier it is meant to give that soldier better equipment, better weapons and protection than his enemy will have. To NOT give your soldiers the advantages you can is almost criminal. By the end of Land Warrior concept each soldier will have integrated night vision and GPS with his gear, allowing him to position himself exactly and see where others cannot, he will have ceramic and kevlar protection enabling him to survive and be less in danger from low calibre high velocity bullets. And he will have weapons integrating more firepower into an infantry grunt than ever before! How is this a bad thing? I wish TO HELL CANADA COULD DO THIS FOR OUR BOYS!

Of course there is a price, no longer will the armed forces support the concept of winning two front lines concurrently. The US simply cannot maintain the manpower to do this anymore. Thats not my conclusion- it is the Pentagons.

And gone soon will be the overwhelming firepower of the armored divisions. To equip, deploy and use these proved to take to long, and be too expensive in the Gulf. They work, but need to take a different form to be used in combat anymore.

Instead we see the US move to a force that concentrates firepower into a faster moving better co-ordinated package that can deploy and smash any opponent in a matter of weeks instead of months.


 
Quote
Gee whiz weapons cannot replace our armed forces or the ability to project power in more than one area of conflict at a time.

Yes it can. Believe me, what the US did in the gulf would be nothing to the power they would project 10 years from now when they can do even more punishing damage in a time frame of 1 month instead of 6 or more.


 
Quote
But reality rears it's ugly head... you don't win a war of attrition with technology. By the end of the gulf war we were OUT of Tomahawks, could no longer load med/long range AA missiles on our fighters and were criticly short of everything from Durandels to Mavericks.

Towards the end, we were dumping 30 year old iron eggs; eyeball aimed...

How we gonna do against China? India?? The CFS? Survival means we must HONOR THE THREAT. That does not mean we attack; that means we continue to project what any possible future agressor could do; and plan accordingly.

Toys are neat.. but yah still need an Army; a Navy, A Marine Corps, and Air Force; all fully equipped and trained, with logistical support consistent with the mission... and that mission remains "take the fight TO the enemy".

Well said Hang, but some points to make back- sure we aere out of missiles- but by that time we had relied on the airforce to do a job for over 3 months longer than they should have had too. Do you really want to fight any war of attrition? in modern war they just never happen. The supplies ran out because the armored divisions took too long to setup and supply to do their job on the ground.

I don't think the objective is to reduce the infrastructure of the armed forces. I think it is just a transition that is part of adpating them. And I think that the US armed forces in 5-10 years will have even more functionality, power and equipment than any US standing army has had since the height of the cold war.

Sorrow