Bruno knows very well how much I cried about the loss of the gun pods armed G-10. After a lot of digging and research I (like Michulec) couldnt find even a photo of a gun pods armed G-14 ... go figure. However late G-6 were (MW50 equipped) like the G-14s and probably still mounted gunpods, so our gunpods armed G-14 is probably ok.
I have said the evidence for gondolas on the K-4 exist. I have said, that in the case of JG26's K-4s, that their K-4s came equipped with gondolas. Most pilot accounts I have read said they hated the gondolas and many removed them. I said exactly that in the original thread where Pyro asked about 109 load outs. I also said that I never saw a picture of a G-14 with gondolas.
The thing I argue against is the claim that some folks say the '109's are useless with out gondolas'. Or 'the G-6 can't be flown with out the Mk108' etc...
In the original thread I asked that HTC either give the CM's a command where by they could limit certain load outs, or a percentage of certain load outs, for events, scenarios or the CT etc... Or get rid of some of the load outs like the gondolas for the F-4 and the 3cm option for the G-6.
There were aprox. 12000 G-6s produced with only around 1600 (around 13%) with MK 108s. In '43 there were only 181 G-6/U4s.
Fyi, there were around 5000 G-14s and G-14/AS produced:
G-14/U4
08/1944 : 59
09/1944 : 32
10/1944 : 228
11/1944 : 118
12/1944 : 56
01/1945 : 47
02/1945 : 2
Only around 10% of these had MK 108s.
If you all think that you should be able to strap on any load out you want and go tooling about the main then that's HTC descision. I don't share that opinion. I think that all aircraft should be limited to their standard / typical load outs and that only representative planes should be added to the game.
Seagoon,
Was that really necessary?
Sure it was seeing how you asked a question...
Look, are we really disputing that there were any Gondola armed 109Fs?
...that was answered in my original reply. You were posturing and in the process of creating a strawman. As I said:
The 109F-4/R1 was the only Fritz with gondolas and it required a different wing. Only 240 /R1 a/c were produced and not all 240 carried gondolas.
Because no WW2 aircraft had stingers or laser guided weapons. Whereas at least several hundred 109Fs were operational during WW2 with gondolas.
There were not 'several hundred' F-4/R1s. There were 240 and of those 240 not all carried gondolas and many had them removed. You claimed that the 'Grognards of realism' have neutered the 109F. So why be worried about 'realism' when it comes to laser guided weapons? If not laser guided weapons why not strap on Mk 103 or Mk 108 gun pods under each wing etc...
So to say that because there were only a few hundred operational BF109Fs with Gondolas in WW2 they needed to be removed, we have just necessarily made an incredibly strong argument for entirely removing the F4U-1C and the Ostwind from the roster as well.
First the CHOG is perked, and it saw more combat then the F-4/R1 loaded with gondolas. However, this discussion isn't about the CHOG or the Ostwind, HTC hasn't asked our opinion on those, they did on the 109 load outs.
Personally, I barely if ever see an F4 in the MA at present. Few pilots have the skill to kill you with the single 20mm before you can outrun or outmaneuver them.
That's not due to load outs, that's due to the exact plane icon. Prior to this folks in F's could surprise others with their maneuverability. Now when folks see '109F4' they just nose down and extend rather then commit to a turn or other maneuver that would work against a G-6 or G-10/K-4. It has nothing to do with gondolas. In fact gondolas make the plane slower, climb worse and maneuver poorly compared to a clean configuration. The 109F-4 is not a 'slow plane' either. You are better off with out the gondolas. Even one of your quotes says so:
Later, the Bf 109 F-1/R1 was to appear with a 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon mounted in a gondola under each wing, but while this improved the fighter's effectiveness as a bomber destroyer, it adversely affected the machines power of manoeuvre and reduced its potency fighter-versus-fighter combat.
In terms of load outs the only thing that the G-6 and G-14 need are 200 rounds of MG151/2cm instead of 150... I hope that gets fixed. Whether or not HTC adds a gondola option for the K-4, I don't care. I don't fly the K-4 and if I did I would not use gondolas. He could remove the gondola option for the G-14 (as well as the 3cm) and I would not care.
Although with the G-14 is limited to 404 - 406 mph at FTH it appears that the top speed is modeled to include the gondolas. In clean configuration the G-14 should do around 413 mph at FTH.
