CART

[Staga]

You guys are still racing with sedans with -70's technology?
Would be fun to see one of those racing against this one. Too bad you dumped those nasty CanAm cars... Heck even old "Interseries" Porsche 917/30 would blow your sedans away.
Your CART's suck too. They're just oversized and overweight formula cars.

"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the breaking point of the next turn, then you have enough horsepower."
"In 1973 this was the world's most powerful sportscar.  With 12 cylinders and 1200 horsepower... IT STILL IS."
(Mark Donohue, Porsche 917/30)"


(Just Kidding, Relax...)
edit: In middle -80's BMW's engineers estimated their F-1 turbo engine did gave 1400hp in qualification race. Thought motor lasted only 10 laps  

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 04-30-2001).]

[funked]

Staga, say what you want about CART cars, but they are the fastest cars in the history of racing.  

[Staga]

Quote from another BB:
 

I was in Montreal in 81, I was in the pits infront of the Ferrari pits ( ahhh the good old days, you could do that then) I asked a Ferrari mechanic that burning Question,"what is the diff between the two cars?" He smiled @ me and said " ya know turn 5? an Indy car goes 70mph and we go 110mph.

Apples and Oranges  

[Staga]

Heh I just found this:
 

Q: If a Formula One car raced gainst a CART machine, which would win?

A: On a twisty course, like the one built at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the U.S. Grand Prix, CART's Michael Andretti would have no chance against F1's Michael Schumacher. Though the engines for both open-wheel racers produce about 800 horsepower, F1 cars are about 400 pounds lighter. Says Andretti, who raced on the F1 circuit in 1993, "That helps with braking, cornering, and acceleration. An F1 car is going to outperform CART in all those areas." Opinions are split as to whether the same would be true on an oval. Derrick Walter, a former F1 mechanic who owns Walker Racing team, which competes in CART and IRL, believes the CART machine, with a top speed of 240 mph (to the F1's 225), would rule. Andretti, though, thinks the F1's weight advantage would give it the edge. So, does the bulkier CART vehicle have any advantage over an F1 car? "Yes," Andretti says. "In an accident."

[hblair]

I agree with everything you said staga.   F1, Can Am, all that good stuff is way faster than nascar. But ya know what else? The racing sucks big 'uns. I go to sleep watching that BS.

<g,d,r> (yet again)

[funked]

Staga, that information is all out of date.  Since 1993 F-1 has seen an increase in weight, and multiple reductions in horsepower, tire size, downforce, plus a move from sticky slicks to greasy grooved tires.  The balance has shifted in a big way.  CART cars are faster in every aspect now.    F-1 cars no longer have the grip or power to match CART cars in acceleration or cornering.

PS 4 years ago at Michigan, Andre Ribiero's Honda recorded 258 mph through the radar trap.  Chew on that Euros.    


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-30-2001).]

[hblair]

Yeah! What funked said. Our open wheelers rewl! Euro racing hugs!  

[AKDejaVu]

Still trying to find some info on the web.. but Oldsmobile made a prototype quad 4 vehicle that held the land speed record at daytona... all four cylinders of it.  Some 1200 horsepower (if memory serves correct) out of a 4 cylinder.

A Porsche Groupe B was also ran at Daytona against a NASCAR ride in the late 80's.  I'm pretty sure the results were a toss up.  One would beat the other.. then the crews would make some adjustments (new chip in Porsche.. more duct tape on NASCAR) and the results would change.  Wish I still had that Car and Driver article.

AKDejaVu

[Gh0stFT]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Staga, that information is all out of date.  Since 1993 F-1 has seen an increase in weight, and multiple reductions in horsepower, tire size, downforce, plus a move from sticky slicks to greasy grooved tires.

your right funked,
BUT on many tracks the Lap times decreased during the last years,
with all those things you mentioned above  

some fastest laps examples from Monaco:

1992 - Nigel Mansell at 1:21,598 min
1993 - Alain Prost at 1:23,604 min
...
1998 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:22,948 min
1999 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:22,259 min
2000 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:21,571 min

fastest laps examples from Suzuka:

1992 - Nigel Mansell at 1:40,646 min
...
2000 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:39,189 min

fastest laps examples from Interlagos:

1992 - Riccardo Patrese at 1:19,490 min
1993 - Michael Schumacher at 1:20,024 min
...
2000 - Michael Schumacher at 1:14,755 min

i could go on, but you see the point ?

greets
Gh0stFT

[Creamo]

They tested, they knew, yet they waited till the last second to popsicle out...I mean make a decision?

I knew that track would be a S.O.B., thats exactly why I bought tickets.  But so did CART, and certainly the IRL.

Don't these guys have THROTTLES to control the speed and G forces? Let the man with the biggest nads and heaviest foot win. The rest will be less stressed, and behind in the points.

Anywho, anyone wanna buy 2 start/finish 28 row tickets? Bet CART wont figure I need a refund on my vacation days or my tickets.

NASCAR fan  

[-lynx-]

 

LOL! You troll! I'd expect this comment out of those soccer playing Euro-trash racing fan wannabes..

Not sure where Indy500 fits into this discussion but last time Nigel Mansell drove that thing (after retiring from F1 that is!) he walked all over your boys or should I say "he drove all over them"? ...

[Staga]

GhostFT same happened with old Group-B and new Group-A/WRC rallycars.
Old B's were having +500hp (+600 if needed) and in couple years Gr.A cars got same times in same races because development of tires, suspensions and transmissons with about 350hp.

Yeah, Gr.B cars...
Chitload of brute power in a plastic bag... Thought it really was a sight seeing them fly from jump to jump... and those flames out of exhaust pipes... and those sounds  

 

To give you an idea of the kind of performance GroupB cars were capable of  I'll mention that in the 1986 season Henri Toivonen made two laps around the Estoril circuit, during a stage of the Portuguese rally, the fastest of which, in 1 minute and 18,1 seconds, would have qualified him in the sixth position of the F1 Grand Prix that same season. Ayrton Senna had the Pole Position in the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix in 1 minute and 16,7 seconds...Toivonen was using the Lancia Delta S4 and was accompanied by his usual co-driver Sergio Cresto.

(Not sure but it could be in wet track)

[Mk10=Ravens]

I remember telling some folks at work when this thing was first being talked about how ridiculous it was going to be.

The IRL events at Charlotte and the like are bad enough.  It's one thing to race open-wheel cars on a track like Indy, or even Michigan, but D-shaped 1.5 mile Superspeedways are ridiculous.

I'm glad I didn't invest time, energy, vacation time, and money like Creamo, 'cause I'd be pissed.  Really, really pissed.

Since I didn't, I can say I'm glad they DID call it off, although it's a freakin' joke that they waited until they did.  An absolute joke that shows that the current CART administration has no idea what the shreck it's doing.

This soon after Earnhardt, the last thing I felt like seeing was more slow-moving ambulances carrying bodies away from the track.  

This whole "vicious circle" thing was started by that moron George by racing IRL cars at tracks that they have no reason to be at, and CART, in it's infinite wisdom, decided to be just as stupid.

Again, I'd be pissed as hell if I had spent money on tickets, plane tickets, vacation time, hotel rooms, "mad money" and the like, only to be told at the very, very end it was not to be, but at least the drivers have a chance to live.

I guess now would be the time for F1 to step up, and do a race there themselves.  Indy's road course seemed to be a good draw, and this would be a chance to show the US what big, burly he-men they are, and how superior their cars are.  

Everyone but Schumacher.  He needs to race Nascar.  Even though he speaks English, he'd need a translator, but I think he's got the right temperment for Nascar.

I wonder what Ferrari could do with the standard 358 block they use?  Mmmmmmm...

Mk  

[Creamo]

I'm glad I didn't invest time, energy, vacation time, and money like Creamo, 'cause I'd be pissed. Really, really pissed.

No problemo my good man. Being pissed off, and being pissed on has ultimate diffrences. Either way, being pissed aint going to do ...SHIT.

 I was with my brother who lives states away and we just peeled off and had fun anyway..of course. CART racers are tards now...what can ya do but head to a bar and talk with yer brother?


Its like everyday Aces High guys that get good at life enough to have $1500 computers, cool TM sticks ala joysticks that make EVERYTHING easier, scoping around a sweet 360 view system as a 'Ol boy trys to track off a 2 button switch stick, and they just waste him.

AND..still... squeak like old fuking hags that the CV ack is wrong or something....

See?

Peace, you whiney tools  



[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-01-2001).]

[funked]

Lynx, Mansell never won at Indy.