Author Topic: Why unions still suck (Read 3206 times)

Urchin · « **Reply #135 on:** April 02, 2006, 12:18:31 AM »

One thing I don't think you guys realize is that it really is one way or the other. Marx had the scenario right, I'm not sure he had the ending right though.

But eventually, unless the wealthy manage to crush them entirely, the impoverished majority will *make* them share.

Whats the old saying? The rule of law is made at the end of a barrel of a gun? Something like that, anyway.

By the way Chairboy, how many "undocumented aliens" you got working at your pizza shop? You at least pay em the minimum wage?

Rolex · « **Reply #136 on:** April 02, 2006, 01:20:46 AM »

There are some notes to that data, Toad:

"The series are the average earnings of all production or nonsupervisory jobs, not the earnings average of "typical" jobs or jobs held by "typical" workers. Specifically, there are no adjustments for occupational, age, or schooling variations or for household type or
location. Many studies have established the significance of these factors and that their impact varies over time."

The average family is 3.18, not 4.5 people. We just reduced expenses...

In the average family of today, the spouse contributes another 60% to that amount, but the data set of that group will show a much higher rate of spousal contribution (two-earner families). We just increased the average family income...

Also, US workers are in the top 5 worldwide of missed days of work. That would be employee responsibility, not employer.

moot · « **Reply #137 on:** April 02, 2006, 05:05:44 AM »

Urchin, back in kindergarten and grade school, the top grading students split their grades with you?
Did you split your grades with lesser scoring students?

In life you get what you deserve, no more, no less.
Difficulty is symptomatic of incorrect method.

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #138 on:** April 02, 2006, 09:13:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mietla
Yeah, that's an idea. Have an engineer belong to the union too.

But then what about his manager? Well, let's have him belong to the union as well. And then the CEO...

Once we all belong to the "union", we'll all make what we "deserve". Not based on what we produce, but based on what we want (there is no such thing as need).

I've alway said that communisms is an incurable and terminal disease.

Buy, thats a tuff one. The button pusher belongs to the union and makes more than the engineer. So unions are bad. The engineer doesnt belong to a union and doesnt make what he deserves. So companies are good, err, unions are, uhhh, ok, im confused.

. I think the engineer needs to either join a union or gather up his nads and demand a raise.

bj229r · « **Reply #139 on:** April 02, 2006, 09:27:20 AM »

I may be wrong (just ask wife) but I think the largest block of union members nowadays are PUBLIC employees. (15% of all union employees)What frightful things they must have endured at the hands of the Man.

moot · « **Reply #140 on:** April 02, 2006, 10:27:36 AM »

Self-employment is great.

Chairboy · « **Reply #141 on:** April 02, 2006, 10:33:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
By the way Chairboy, how many "undocumented aliens" you got working at your pizza shop?

None, next please.

Toad · « **Reply #142 on:** April 02, 2006, 11:02:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
There are some notes to that data, Toad:

It wasn't meant to be definitive, it was meant as a quick, reasonable, somewhat reliable observation.

It boils down to this: the only thing man truly has that is of great value is the actual moments of his life.

Some feel that taking 33% of a man's daily allotment of time, the workday, and reimbursing him ~ $600 for the five day workweek is a more than fair exchange. MORE than fair; some think that's too much.

Yet it's quite obvious that $600 a week doesn't really "pay the bills" for a family with children in the USA. It's more than enough in China... but not here.

So, we drag Mom into the workforce too, usually paying her a bit less than her male counterpart. We now have our "latchkey" children, a system that really works well for us, eh? All the while taking 1/3 of Mom's life away from her as well.

The solution? Ship all the jobs to China.

Yeah... THAT'S the TICKET!

THAT will give us a booming economy in the world marketplace.

I'll close with a biblical verse for those of you that can understand the basis of this argument:

Quote

Deuteronomy 25:4

Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

Perhaps our CEO's find that too mystifying; maybe this one from Proverbs?

Quote

Proverbs 12:10 (New International Version)

A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.

Quite simply:

Quote

Corinthians 9:10 (New International Version)

Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.

These days, the plowman and the thresher get meager, penurious share indeed.

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #143 on:** April 02, 2006, 11:08:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
US Department Of Labor

Total private...................... ..... Feb 2006 $16.52

Far more than enough to own a reasonable house, a reliable car and cloth/educate/feed 2.5 children.

Right? I mean that's TONS o' money for a family to live on.

That's $553.42 a week. Raising a famliy is a cakewalk on that, right?

jeez, and after taxes is what 420. Take out groceries and gas and utilities, health insurance comes out of that also, if you cxan afford it. Good luck. man i am fortunate, as much as i pss and moan about my job. I hate working 65-75 hours a week, but I guess i would hate wathcing my kids wearing potato sacks to church even worse. Im telling you guys, the insourcing is coming our way. I can see it in my business. Service technicians for high speed packaging companies are 50% no habla. And 50% the pay, i presume. And they are happy to have a job. Like choocha said, 50% the cost, no benifits, will work all day and no complain. Its just not blue collar, they all want a peice of the pie. Unions force a base pay so the undercutters cant come in and lower the standards.

Chairboy · « **Reply #144 on:** April 02, 2006, 12:51:41 PM »

WWCGD?

Urchin · « **Reply #145 on:** April 02, 2006, 12:57:03 PM »

Yea.. actually Chairboy you were right....

I was just being polite earlier.

Shamus · « **Reply #146 on:** April 02, 2006, 01:54:02 PM »

It's not just the lowly blue collar worker as 500 more GM engineers just found out.

China and India are pumping out better engineers at a higher rate than we are that will work for 20% of U.S. pay.

In a few years when these U.S. graduate engineers are working for technician wages a few eyes will open.

shamus

Urchin · « **Reply #147 on:** April 02, 2006, 01:57:31 PM »

No, they won't.

Well, maybe they will. But I have a feeling that some of the not so important important people will have such a hard time admitting that they were wrong that nothing will change.

WilldCrd · « **Reply #148 on:** April 02, 2006, 02:11:04 PM »

Unions do actually do some good. Im in a union for the first time in a LOOONG time the CWA. I have awsome health care because of the unions. I only pay a co payment the rest tis free. I get a choice of 4 health care providers + dental and vision.
To date i havent needed my union steward to helop in a disputed in managment. . We get 2 very respectable raises per year. I've heard guys with more senority complain about the union and they dont belong to it. Here in texas they dont have to. Yet they dont mind getting the benifits the union was able to get from the company. Ussually the complaint is the union dues. Which are tax deductable.
We are fortunate that our company and the union has a good relationship. Im still new to unions but, I think that as long as they have a good relationship with the company and dont make stupid demands thay can be a good thing for the common man.
No system is perfect but having a union to go to bat for ya when ya need it gives me some peace of mind i didnt have without a union.

Comunications Workers of America local 6171 since 1/3/06

SirLoin · « **Reply #149 on:** April 02, 2006, 05:14:30 PM »

Nice post Wildcard...Like most people(including myself) never thought much of unions.

That is until you sign up and see what representation is really all about.

Haven't seen 1 card carrying (UAW/CAW/Teamsters..etc) member in this thread bash their union..only second hand BS and disinformation.