The European Union

[Vudak]

Well, so far in this thread I've learned a few things I didn't know before, and that was pretty much the aim.  I'll get back to your comments a little later Lasersailor (I think we owe the Euros a good thread where two guessing Americans go at it over their policies ) but have to run.

A quick question for the Euros:

How do you feel about Turkey?  My professor is of the opinion that the biggest reason (perhaps sometimes unspoken) is the EUs immense agricultural subisidies (dont have exact figure but thinking 40%ish?) and the fact that places like France, with 15% of the pop. in agriculture wouldn't look so kindly on a few hundred million Turks in the business dividing the spoils of the subsidies.

Would you agree or would you have another major reason?

[lazs2]

vudak... I think that your teacher would love for the eu to win out...  I don't think it will happen tho.  Just wishfull thinking by your socialist teacher.   Tell em I said so..

lazs

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by MANDO
While Europe would be able to be the first economical/social/culture power, it won't be. Inmigration will crush us in few years. A recent study showed some disturbing news. 80% of current inmigration taxes does not even get close to cover half of the cost of social services they got in Europe for all their lives. What we thought would be the "fix" for the eagerly european population is goint to become an economical poison without antidote in less than 20 years more.

Welcome to America!

[TexMurphy]

The biggest problem of the EU is that the member nations have soooo different cultures and local problems.

In the USA all the states have a very similar culture and the difference between Idaho, California and Alabama is much much smaller then the difference between Sweden, UK and Greece.

Imho europe would have been much stronger if it would have consisted of the following unions that had a trade agreement.

Nordic Union (Sweden, Danemark, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Latvia, Estonia)
Central European Union (Germany, Luxenburg, Austria, Poland, Czech Rep, Hungary, Lituania).
Mediteranian Union (Portugal, France, Spain, Italy, Greece)
Atlantic Union (UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Belgium)

These four unions are much closer in cultur and regional issues and would have much easier time working in the same direction.

Then a financial trade union between these four unions and thats it.

Tex

[Saintaw]

Originally posted by Goth
Thread started out with civility, then it looks like some people had to come in and stomp on things. Saitaw, Nilsen and Rolex, why don't you contribute some informed intelligence on the thread instead of acting like the proud eurotards. You guys wonder why people on this board slam the euros?

I'll return your question to storch, your local EU specialist... oh wait... your "All in one" specialist.

[Momus--]

Originally posted by Vudak
A quick question for the Euros:

How do you feel about Turkey?  My professor is of the opinion that the biggest reason (perhaps sometimes unspoken) is the EUs immense agricultural subisidies (dont have exact figure but thinking 40%ish?) and the fact that places like France, with 15% of the pop. in agriculture wouldn't look so kindly on a few hundred million Turks in the business dividing the spoils of the subsidies.

Turkey is a thorny question.

On the one hand, yes, you have France, whose inefficient farmers draw a large proportion of the budget from the Common Agricultural Policy and who wield a disproportionate amount of pwer under the Franch political system. France has so far escaped any major change to the CAP but it is the next likely target for reform as the EU looks to finance continued expansion. My belief is that France will eventually (with some whining) give up on the CAP for fear of being marginalised from the core of EU decision making.

On the other hand, some of the other nations object to Turkey as a prospective member out fear of what they percieve as the prospect of a flood of Turkish (i.e. non-white) immigrants; much of european society is very conservative despite the portrayal of europe in the right wing US press as being quite socialist. These fears are probably misplaced, as every expansion of the EU in recent memory has been accompanied by fears of such waves of immigration which have always failed to materialise. There is also the matter of human rights - which is supposed to be something Turkey is actively addressing.

Also, the objections of Greece will need to be overcome over the issue of Cyprus and the ongoing dispute with Turkey. Because each member state has a veto over expansion of the union, Turkey will need to expend considerable effort in winning Greece over. Since Turkey probably values EU membership more than it values a part of Cyprus, this might actually lead to a final resolution of this age-old problem.

Turkey can supply a young workforce to help with our demographic problems and as an EU member offers a strategic proximity to middle east oil supplies.  IMO Turkish membership is just a matter of time.

[Dowding]

Without reform of the Commission and the dismantling of the CAP, I will never support stronger links between the EU and UK.

To dismantle the CAP system, you will have to break down years of tradition within French agricultural circles, where farms are broken down into smaller farms and distributed among the surviving children on death of the parents. Consequently, inefficiency and reliance on subsidies increases.

Contrast with English tradition, whereby the eldest son inherits the whole farm, and where efficiencies and economies of scale can be exploited with new technology.

Having said that, my recent visits to the continent have opened my eyes. After visiting Berlin in particular, I felt like I could call myself a European.

The EU has great potential - but it is in its infancy. There is alot to change first, and it is best done slowly. Despite recent history, we have more in common than we think - I also think we have a duty to bring in Eastern Europe from the cold after (predominantly) America sold them out at the end of WWII.