FE & collisions etc.

[Brenjen]

There I go getting confused again...just when I thought I understood. So you're saying the smoothing code is NOT predicting the probable next frame in the flight path according to what it sees in real time? I'm begining to get the urge to run a fibre optic drop from my house to HTC's server & demand I get played with by someone....put 'em up Skuzzy....put 'em up!:D

[Hap]

Originally posted by Brenjen
I am not a computer programmer. I am not a complete idiot either. I know how to use & have used the search function.

 That being said hold the "use the search function" snot-nosed comments.

 

Brenjen.  Too bad that for probably less than a dozens' puerileness, others must tolerate thier hi-jinx

hap

[Kermit de frog]

Originally posted by Docc
If you know so much about the code and the net then change the code so it works with the net as you describe it.

It is NOT even close to being right when I don't see a collision on my front end, I get a message that says 'xxxx has collided with you', and I die and he doesn't.

If I got the message that said 'you have collided with xxx' I would expect to take damage, but HE hit me on HIS front end (and was not damaged)according to your explanation...I did not hit him on mine.

No bullets were fired.

I didn;t hit debris......and anyway HT says debris collisions do not cause damage, only noise.......and I didn't hear any noise.

Bottom line:

 If you get the message that says "YOU have collided with XXX"  then you should get the damage or more damage than the person YOU hit.

 If you get the message "XXX has collided with you" then HE should get the damage or a lot more than you get.

Too many people in the MA are using the current collision model to purposely ram people when they are out of ammo (where the guy you hit dies and maybe you live).  Yes I know it really happened in real life......but this is a GAME....let's be fair to everyone


Sorry guys but this is one topic that gets me on my soapbox.

Docc, what you are saying is IMPOSSIBLE.  So, you get damage when the other guy collides with you.  That other guy SHOT YOU!  Now, go back to the game and pay attention next time.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Docc
If you know so much about the code and the net then change the code so it works with the net as you describe it.

It works just fine.

It is NOT even close to being right when I don't see a collision on my front end, I get a message that says 'xxxx has collided with you', and I die and he doesn't.

He shot you and did not take enough damage to go down or leak fluids.

Also, notice that the message is in white text. What else is in white text? Private Messages. This tells you that this message came directly from his front end, NOT the host.

If I got the message that said 'you have collided with xxx' I would expect to take damage, but HE hit me on HIS front end (and was not damaged)according to your explanation...I did not hit him on mine.

Actually the message is 'you have collided' there is no with xxx. This message does not tell you that he collided. If you do not receive a message in white text then no collision was recorded on his FE

If you recieve the message 'you have collided' then you collided. It does not mean a guarantee of damage. You can collide and receive very small amounts of damage just like you can be shot and not receive major damage.

No bullets were fired.

How can you be certain of this. With tracers off there is now way to tell unless you see mussle flashes or you take hits. This is one area where lag can come into play. I can recall many times being shot by a plane that is already past me. Same can be true in this situation. He fires (tracers off) you pass, he collides and then bullets hit you recorded on his FE.

I didn;t hit debris......and anyway HT says debris collisions do not cause damage, only noise.......and I didn't hear any noise.

That is correct. small pieces of debris will not cause damage.

Bottom line:

 If you get the message that says "YOU have collided with XXX"  then you should get the damage or more damage than the person YOU hit.

Again, getting this message does not indicate that the person you hit registered a collision so they may take no damage at all. This is in most cases the way it happens. You hit him on your FE but he sees no collision.

 If you get the message "XXX has collided with you" then HE should get the damage or a lot more than you get.

One more time, this message only indicates that the other players FE recorded a collision. Again, WHITE TEXT, the message came directly from his FE. If you did not recieve a 'you have collided' message then no collision was recorded on your FE. If you take damage it is most likely due to weapons fire.

Too many people in the MA are using the current collision model to purposely ram people when they are out of ammo (where the guy you hit dies and maybe you live).  Yes I know it really happened in real life......but this is a GAME....let's be fair to everyone

Go to the DA or BMA with another player and try it. It's not as easy as you think. Like Ghost said, the best thing to do is turn early. Playing chicken in this game is not a good idea.

Sorry guys but this is one topic that gets me on my soapbox.

No problem, but please try and understand what we are trying to explain here. Too many players get wrapped up in what they believe to be true and resist any effort to correct thier incorrect thinking on this matter. This is probably the most misunderstood topic in this game.

[Tarmac]

Originally posted by Brenjen
So; if I pull up & the other guy pushes forward at the same time...my PC (FE) will not see a collision & neither will the other guy on his end. In that situation there is a WARP because the smoothing code is still actively assuming we are both flying in a predictable pattern when neither of us are in real time.
 

Glad to help out.  

In this situation though, you wouldn't see a warp.  Both planes would avoid the collision, but for different reasons.  The guy who pushed forward would see himself dive under the other plane, which would fly straight on through and pull up a second after it passed him.  The guy who pulled up would see the other plane go under him and fly straight for a second before diving.  

If a third pilot were in the area, he would see the two planes fly through each other and then one would continue up, one would dive, but both would be undamaged.  To him, it would look like they hit and took no damage... but again, that's his smoothing code that assumed they flew straight.  Since his FE can't assign collision damage to another player, it just goes down as a "wtf net lag" moment in his book.  

[Brenjen]

Originally posted by Hap
Brenjen.  Too bad that for probably less than a dozens' puerileness, others must tolerate thier hi-jinx

hap

 I'll admit it.....I had to use a dictionary on this   -------> "puerileness"


 EDIT: I will admit this too; i'm still a tad confused, the more I read, the more questions come to mind. But I think i'm getting it.

[jaxxo]

"It comes down to what you see is what you get. You see a collision, you collided."

This is a fact...another fact is that although i die 99% of the time when colliding (as does everyone somehow) when I do "win" one i get a collision message with no damage even though i hear it , see it , and watch the other guy fall to pieces while i get the collision message

question..does processor speed have anything to do with winning or losing collisions? it would seem so as i have a dated system..

[E25280]

Not sure about the processor --

But as for "winning" a collision as you describe, the easy answer is you saw / felt a minor colision of your wingtip scraping his verticle stablizer or some other minor scrape.  Meanwhile on his front end his nose cone appeared to go right through your fuselage.  He disintegrates, as it should be given "his" collision, while you fly away with paint scratches, as it should be given "your" collision.

[Crusher]

The easiest way to experience the "net effect" is to 2 people to target the same plane. Each will report a different distance. This works best on a freindly target as the distance report you see is more detailed- yard increments vs. 200 yard increments with enemy planes.

As to who gets damage, it appears that not only which computer "Sees" the damage applies, but also if the "pilot" is looking in the right view to see the impact.

Another aspect is that HTC has no control over routers between you and their servers. If a router hiccups, is slow, is overloaded or the electrons/photons want to be silly, anything can happen to data transmitted over the internet path your using. You can, and probably have seen, enemy plane do insane things. It ain't your fault, It ain't HTCs fault. It IS the nature of internet gaming.

So, Fly like you want to survive, stay out of the middle of DATA furballs(when your in the middle of a furball the amount of data generated can overwhelm your computer and the internet path) and accept that this is VR.
Itsa game! Even SHawk gets shot down regularly---I've seen it!


If "IT" gets really bad, HTC has the reputation for making "IT" better.
They have in the past and you can bet, if they can do anything about it, they will. (re: recently seeking/moving game servers,etc)

[mussie]

Hey one way round is Direct dial to HTC

Lets go back to the old warbirds days of $2/hour *

And for an additional setup fee of... Oh I don't know $200 your can have you own personal modem and phone line at HTC**[/B]



I think a dose of history might scare a few people straight.....

NB I was not there so $2 an hour is just a guess

*+ Long Distance
**Ongoing line rental charges applicable

EDIT: I wonder how different the game would be if everyone had a direct dial connection.... I suppose then it would be a case of people on low gauge copper having crappy connects....

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Crusher
The easiest way to experience the "net effect" is to 2 people to target the same plane. Each will report a different distance. This works best on a freindly target as the distance report you see is more detailed- yard increments vs. 200 yard increments with enemy planes.

As to who gets damage, it appears that not only which computer "Sees" the damage applies, but also if the "pilot" is looking in the right view to see the impact.

...snip.....

Interesting idea, and a nice experiemnt to "try at home."

However, I'm pretty sure that "looking" has absolutely no effect on kill data. I'll leave the definitive answer to HTC, but in the past I've read them say that all that matters is who landed the most damage prior to the kill bveing recorded. Period.

[Simaril]

HTC has said in another thread that connect speed has NO effect on collisions, at all, in any way. This is entirely as expected if you understand that the collision happens 100% on your machine. Dont hit the things you see (wether you're looking that way or not) on your computer.

I cant think of a reason processor speed would affect collisions, because reactions are limited y their slowest step -- which is the net info coming to your computer.

And I claim no authority for that idea, just applied logic. I dont program anything tougher than a VCR.

[mussie]

Would it not be easier if we got three people to film the same event.

1 guy on dial up
1 on cable
1 guy on ADSL

Get two of them to fly Me163's at full pelt towards each other and collide.

Get the third to watch from the ground.

Have all three post the films.

Get someone who is good with films, Morph perhaps (no suckup intended) to edit them over the top of each other from the same view
and perhaps a few other views ect.

Maybe this will help people understand how each person see's a different angle of the same thing.....

Just an idea and not to well thought but hey I thought it might help

Later

EDIT: I only suggested Cable ADSL and Dial up to try and get three connections that are as different as possable, I know there is a hell of a lot more to it.....

[Skuzzy]

It is what your computer detects.  You do not have to visually see the collision for it to happen.

[WMLute]

Originally posted by Crusher
As to who gets damage, it appears that not only which computer "Sees" the damage applies, but also if the "pilot" is looking in the right view to see the impact.  

remind me next time I got a ton o' nme on my 6 to not look back.  maybe they won't be able to damage me if i'm not "looking"