Why Were The Allies So Successful

[LEDPIG]

Simple question why were the allies so successful in ww2, was it better planes, better pilots, training etc? How were they able to win over such maneaverable and light airplanes. We all see how tactics are important in fighting dissamiliar aircraft, was it that? Anyone have any idea of how the actual planes such as P-38 and P-47 were actually employed against there much lighter and more maneaverable opponents? Do you think the combat in AH falls somewhere along the lines of real life in how we dogfight and use our simulated planes and environment. What are the political, tactical, or any other factors that caused the allies to win as to how the air war fit into the big picture?

[mipoikel]

- War economy
- Axis couldnt bomb US factories
- Hitlers stupidity
- Lots of friends = many fronts

[Angus]

Feet on the ground.

[mussie]

Ya know when ya think about the fact that the Axis could not attack US factories and cities with any real effect. They were pretty much screwed when the US joined the war......

[Ghosth]

In the Pacific fighters had specific orders.
Only attack when you have both altitude & numbers advantage.
Dive away when you lose the advantage. Our fighters had better dive, better control in dive, and better top speed. So basicly we dictated the engagements for the most part. We made them fight us on our terms, outnumbered, against better trained pilots. And in some cases against much better planes.




As for Germany, between  escorted bombing raids killing lots of fighters. Plus killing them on the ground, fighter sweeps, airfield raids killing planes on the ground. Bombers totally disrupting supply as well as command & control..
Plus outnumbering them significantly.

Question isn't why the allies won, its why it took so long.

[Angus]

Remember a few things here:

WW2 was going for almost 2 years before the Germans invaded the USSR

WW2 was going on more than 2 years before Germany declared war on the USA

At the beginning, the Luftwaffe had the finest and arguably, the most powerful airforce in the world

The Germans sat on the main sources of Europe from May/June 1940.

There was however a catch, the Royal Navy was a bad obstacle for transport.

The USSR were still feeding the Germans untill 1941 with valuable products such as oil.

Way before the USA was fighting the Germans, either on land or in the air, the British were heavily engaged, - in N-Africa for instance.

The Germans had quite an ally, - Italy
(Italian navy and merchant navy larger than what the Germans had)



So, good question, why were the allies so successful?

[bozon]

Anyone have any idea of how the actual planes such as P-38 and P-47 were actually employed against there much lighter and more maneaverable opponents? Do you think the combat in AH falls somewhere along the lines of real life in how we dogfight and use our simulated planes and environment

Real pilot flew like what we refer to as "dweebs". They gang banged, cherry picked and run away as often as they could. From all the aces biographies I've read, most of their kills, save a few, were like that.

P47 was such a successful plane just becuase "manuverability" was way overrated for high alt fights. The most important thing for not getting shot down was to be able to take a hit and still run away. Most pilots shot down never saw their attacker. Ruggedness offered you a second chance (some times). The most important defensive ACM was "split S and dive for the clouds". 190s ruled this category and frustrated spits and P38s till the Jugs arrived.

Tree-tops fighting was a different issue due to the problem of not being able to run away effectively. Must be the reason why the russians weren't as impressed by the 190 (or the P47) as the RAF and USAF were.

What are the political, tactical, or any other factors that caused the allies to win as to how the air war fit into the big picture?

The air war had an important contribution but one has to remember that most of the work was done by a large bunch of angry russian foot soldiers.

Bozon

[LEDPIG]

Yea it seems to me a large amount of kills and deaths in air combat occured by:

     someone sneaking up and shooting someone from behind

     attacking only when you had the advantage

     diving on an opponenent with superior speed and running

     attacking with superior numbers

  In the MA we calls these moves "dweeb" moves but in real life this was how it was done. You can't respawn and try it again in real life this was no joke.  I personally don't think these are "dweeb" moves i think this is smart fighting and caters to your best interests, i.e. you living other guy dying.  Iv'e never heard a real fighter pilot be dishonored by his cowardly tactics iv'e only ever heard them say kill quick and run, try to avoid a long drawn out conflict. I suppose this was particularly important when pitting a 109 against a 47 for instance where a P-47 has no business figthing a 109 on it's terms. It's like a one armed man trying to beat Mike Tyson. As happens in the MA repeatedly the guy with the most altitude and speed rules the engagement and it appears the allies made this a rule, thus allowing them to whip some axis prettythang.

[Bronk]

I would like to add :

1 German lack of heavy 4 engine strategic bomber.
 Imagine how BoB would have went if instead of Ju 88 they had something similar to the 17 or the 24.
2 Starting a second front before the 1st is won
3 Hitler was his own worst enemy.
   Didn't listen to his generals.
   He also screwed up aircraft development. I think some say the 262 could have been in service much earlier if not for his meddling.
   Also better aircraft were developed but because of cronyism, contracts went to Messerschmitt.


Bronk

[Angus]

They needed a longer range for the escorts in the BoB. The 4 engines won't matter that much when the range is as little as England.

There was hardly a finer bomber in the world than the Ju88 in 1940, - but again, He 111 was the main one.

But a 4 engined one for heavy strikes at night, that one could have come in handy for Germany. As for deep raids into the USSR.

So why were the allies so successful?

IMHO because they screwed up less

[Bronk]

I should have added that also.
I'd think it  would be much harder to down an aircraft the size of a 17/24 with .303s compared to a 88.




Bronk

[Angus]

It was summer 1940.
Nobody except perhaps the US had any fleets of biggies at all.

BTW, the JU 88 was almost as fast as the British fighters anyway...

[Hawco]

What's interesting to me is that after the BOB, I was under the impression that the LW was on it's kness etc, however, after reading about large scale British Fighter sweeps beinf attacked by very very capabale LW units, this seems to not be the case.
Would I also be right in saying that even by the summer of 43, the LW still ruled the skies of Europe ?

I think a lot of the guys on here are correct, most used "Dweeb" tactics, nothing wrong with that inmho, smart flying, I'd still like to know how the LW shot so many buffs down, everyone knows it's a hard thing to do in here, with that big tater gun in the K4 for example, you have to get in close, fatal when attacking buffs usually..

[joeblogs]

Read "The economics of World War II : six great powers in international comparison," edited by Mark Harrison, Cambridge University Press, 1998

Assuming Russia & the US were in the war, Germany's only chance was to fully mobilize the economy in 1939. Even then it probably would not have been enough. Japan had no chance at all.

Now, if Germany had put her entire prewar navy budget into uboats, the UK might have been forced out of the war.

-Blogs

Originally posted by LEDPIG
Simple question why were the allies so successful in ww2, was it better planes, better pilots, training etc? How were they able to win over such maneaverable and light airplanes. We all see how tactics are important in fighting dissamiliar aircraft, was it that? Anyone have any idea of how the actual planes such as P-38 and P-47 were actually employed against there much lighter and more maneaverable opponents? Do you think the combat in AH falls somewhere along the lines of real life in how we dogfight and use our simulated planes and environment. What are the political, tactical, or any other factors that caused the allies to win as to how the air war fit into the big picture?

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Angus
Remember a few things here:

WW2 was going for almost 2 years before the Germans invaded the USSR

WW2 was going on more than 2 years before Germany declared war on the USA

Heh.  Those were the two best years that Germany had in that war, too!

The most accurate explanation I've ever heard for why the war ended the way it did was the subject of an old joke, which I attempt to recreate here:


Late one night in 1944, two friends sat in a Berlin bomb shelter while Royal Air Force bombers saturated the city above them with high explosives.  One of the men had been a geography teacher before the war, and he took this opportunity to educate his friend about the countries engaged in the war.

“You see all of these red areas,” he said, pointing to a world map.  “Those are the countries and colonies of the British Empire.”

“Ja, I see that.”

“And over here, this large yellow mass is the United States of America.”

“Ja.”

“While on the other side, this huge blue area is the Soviet Union.”

“Ja.  Russkis.”

“That’s right.  Now here, in the middle, this small green country is Germany.”

The teacher’s friend stared at the map in silence.  The seconds ticked by as the room shook from the bombs going off overhead.  Finally the man looked at the teacher, and said in awe,

“Mein Gott.  Has anyone told the Fuehrer?”

- oldman