Author Topic: XP vs Vista (Read 3279 times)

Roscoroo · « **Reply #30 on:** May 17, 2006, 01:07:24 PM »

AH 2 does run on Vista ... (beware of the alt/tab though)

IMO it ran better in vista on my 1.3 ghz pc then it does on my 3500+ 64 bit
its still not optemized for 64 bit correctly and drivers are a frelling nightmare.

another thing the install of vista still takes over 4 hrs ...

Bronk · « **Reply #31 on:** May 17, 2006, 01:18:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
It depends on the ram you put in. If you've got matched pairs in slots 1 and 3 now, you should have dual channel. If you put a matched pair in the other slots (2 and 4) you should retain dual channel. If you don't match them they may revery to single channel.

However that does not stop it from being "Double Data Rate" -- as that is the type of RAM archtecture you're using, not the way it's installed.

You should be good.

Was going to just buy the exact same type I have now.
So I should be good.

Bronk

Bronk · « **Reply #32 on:** May 17, 2006, 01:19:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Roscoroo

another thing the install of vista still takes over 4 hrs ...

That's insane.

Bronk

Roscoroo · « **Reply #33 on:** May 18, 2006, 01:11:47 AM »

The real meaning ...

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #34 on:** May 18, 2006, 03:04:08 AM »

How can I verify that my memory is running in double data rate mode?

Krusty · « **Reply #35 on:** May 18, 2006, 05:48:49 PM »

You can't verify that. Double Data Rate is DDR. Its the type of ram you put in your computer. Basically PC3200 is DDR RAM.

If you want to verify if you've got dual channel or single channel the best way is to watch your POST screen as you boot up. Mine tells me how much RAM I have saying "xxxxx MB running in virtual single channel" or something like that.

F1Bomber · « **Reply #36 on:** May 19, 2006, 09:20:48 AM »

Skuzzy this is the current outlook on the situation I see for most developers please correct me if you see im wrong on some points.

People will upgrade to the new vista operating system if people like it or not, its will be sold with all new computers via dell, because Microsoft could simply offer insider deals that its 50% cheaper or free with new any PC’s.

What does vista offer developers?
·   DirectX9/DirectX10
·   .net platform
·   Huge library files via .net
·   New GUI interface
·   WinFX forms

Current C++ code, wont be able to access the new directX10 graphics library because it being provided within the .net platform and only on vista. But C++/CLI enables programmers to take advantage of access the net platform. So does C#, but it’s a completely different programming langue that is interprted by a virtual machine. Also rewriting millions of lines of code from C++ to C# would be only a test case for Microsoft to prove that C# works on large scale software.

So the middle ground is going to be put on hybrid C++/CLI code itself to access DirectX10 and new winFX forms on Vista, but also being backward compatible within the same programming language to the older operating systems. I don’t think developers right now have the option to upgrade to .net platform on windows XP, because of the surrounding runtime corruption that have happened on peoples machine, and being a new technology.

Now lets lay it all out. I presume you will be able to run old directX 8.1 and direct 9.0 games within vista. Depending on how much of the windows api the software developer used. To take advantage of the new directX10 in vista the developers are going to have to port it across over to C++/CLI to use there existing code base. The complexity involved, I don’t really know. At the same time, providing the product for win98/xp/nt/ and also vista, can you hear the developers crying now? Also at the same time segregating your market into the ones that have directX10 and the ones that don’t have it.

straffo · « **Reply #37 on:** May 19, 2006, 09:35:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by F1Bomber
Current C++ code, wont be able to access the new directX10 graphics library because it being provided within the .net platform and only on vista. But C++/CLI enables programmers to take advantage of access the net platform. So does C#, but it’s a completely different programming langue that is interprted by a virtual machine. Also rewriting millions of lines of code from C++ to C# would be only a test case for Microsoft to prove that C# works on large scale software.

Are you sure it's the case for managed C++ ?

F1Bomber · « **Reply #38 on:** May 19, 2006, 10:31:21 AM »

I know you can access .net code via C++/CLI managed C++. Considering that DirectX10 will be provided using the same common lanaguage interface for C# visual# that there is a high probability you will be able too. I cannot conferm it though, but can say C++/CLI gives you access to .net because i use it at work, and currently doing research on future trends.

Just an extra note.

Vista will most likly provided in 4 different version.
Retail ( lite )
Retail ( heavy )
Retail ( server lite ) or Retail ( heavy )

Though i do think introduction of all the technology into vista in one huge bang into the market is going to cause alot of issues. Firstly, digital rights mangement, memory consumption, requirement of having a dual core that the OS lock's itself to one proccessor. New standards and implimentation requirements. Backwards compatability for developers for old programs.

At this moment in time, just as looking into the industry. Any software house that relys on microsoft technology mostly software side is going to get a real shake up. Software houses that have rolled there own in the past are going to be lessly effected by the changed because of owning all aspects of there software.

I have some conflicting issues with using microsoft technology. Is it becomes deprecated too soon and very not very well documented implimentation and solutions. Coming from the java background here

. Mostly keep coming down to the conlusion, the best way to actualy keep conformaty and flexability in your software package is to roll your own. Replying on microsoft runtime envrioment i keep concluding its going to break more times than its worth. Java i never had this issues, because i mostly compiled the java enviroment with the executable, and all clients where very happy and never run into any major version control issue. Wish it was the same with microsoft.

When i first read skuzzy thoughts and reviews of the .net platform, i was say the least suprised. So i started digging into the matter. Mainly because 1. Skuzzy knows what hes doing, and I can rely on his comments more than marketing from microsoft.

So i went off, did some major research and pretty much agree with skuzzy on every single aspect he has posted about the .net platform.

Another posted it very nicly i will qoute it here.
One platform all languages
One Language all platforms

its a situation developers are facing now.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #39 on:** May 19, 2006, 02:58:44 PM »

We do not use C++ for the game code. We use C.

The DirectX team has always done a very good job with backwards compatibility. However, MS lost the key architect for DX8 and DX9 about halfway through DX9 developement (he is working at ATi right now).

We are seeing the API migrate away from the C interface and back to the GUID/C++ crap of old, which marked all versions od DX from 7 back to 3 (that was some terrible API's). I suspect DX10 will be ripe with it. It just means it will be a very long time before we could or would adopt DX10.

I have not done a full review of the DX10 SDK yet, but suspect MS has not had time to get .NET implemented in it, as it will prove to be the most difficult to do, being written mostly in C and assembly. If they have not tied DX10 to .NET, then there is hope for it. If they have tied it to .NET, they will have effectively driven a nail into future game development for the PC.

Once people find out what .NET does to them (not for them), there are going to be a lot of unhappy people out there.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #40 on:** May 19, 2006, 03:06:21 PM »

People may be upgrading to Vista when they buy new computers..

But that's their own problem.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #41 on:** May 19, 2006, 03:14:42 PM »

Certainly OEM computers will come with it. MS licensing requires OEM's to adopt the latest OS. I feel for the people buying an OEM computer and the OEM as well.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #42 on:** May 19, 2006, 04:07:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
If they have tied it to .NET, they will have effectively driven a nail into future game development for the PC.

Hmmm, interesting. Trying to make the Xbox the only gaming system, or just trying to drive every third party developer insane?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #43 on:** May 19, 2006, 04:18:44 PM »

It is just a sign of the times hubs. I cannot count how many, what I call, new-age programmers who do not think twice about using 1,000 lines of code, where only 10 lines would do the job.

It's not that they are bad programmers, per se. They just cannot get past the 'whiz-bang' approach to programming. Instead of using the right tool/language for the task at hand, they use the latest whiz-bang stuff, even if it is the wrong thing to do. Sort of like using a sledge hammer, when all you really needed was an awl.

MS has a very large programming population who are good application programmers, but suck at system programming. This is why Vista will be so bloated. It's being written like an application, rather than from the systems approach.

MS does not want to kill the PC gaming industry, but they are not doing much to help it with Vista.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #44 on:** May 19, 2006, 04:33:31 PM »

Well, here are the offical minimum requirements for Vista. MS posted them today.

================================
- 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor.
- 1 GB of system memory.
- A graphics processor that runs Windows Aero.
- 128 MB of graphics memory.
- 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
- DVD-ROM Drive.
- Audio output capability.
- Internet access capability.
================================

Keep in mind, 1GB of system RAM is just for the OS. If you plan on running anything, you will need much more RAM. Every application will grow as the API is highly bloated. What takes 20MB of RAM now, will take about 35MB of RAM.