sooo ausie's.... did Bryant do it?

[Yeager]

dont be a fool kid, lazs is smart.

[uvwpvW]

I never said he wasn't.

[Debonair]

Originally posted by Sikboy
If that were true, he would have told Schultz about the Radio in the coffee pot.

-Sik

i musta picked the wrong hogan.
ben hogan

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Hang these theories are interesting to say the least but I just have a hard time digesting the motive for this.  People in govt. would really want to kill 168 people just to frame Tim Mcveigh?  They'd go through all that horror just to limit personal powers and increase govt. role?  I have a hard time believing that there are people like that in govt that have the power and resources to act on it.

I think ATF was poised to do a 'save the day' interdiction of a frame/enablement of some crackpot militia group. I think FBI smelled a rat and got onto it. I think ATF jumped the gun or FBI missed a trick.. and the blasts went off because of a major communications screw up at ATF between it's field operatives and operational control.

I don't think the building was supposed to be dropped. I think ATF was supposed to get an 'atta-boy' bone for the 'discovery' of it's planted explosives, the public to be distracted from Klinton's shenanigans with an aide, and the resultant 'public outcry' against the rights militias and dissenter groups were to justify pervious ATF/FBI blunders at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

I think that after the fact the government went ape-**** trying to cover it's inter-agency screw up.

And, what i think is unimportant. What is important is the governemnt is definitly lying and supressing evidence. i came to my conclusion after sifting through the info from credible sources (that the government is lying about Oklahoma City) and trying to take a stab at what I think.. not what anybody else says, then you should look at the data and draw yer own conclusions.

If yer like me and your convinced that the government is lying... then whats your conclusion for 'why'? I'd bet my bottom dollar those bombs inside the building were supposed to be FOUND, not detonated, and I have my doubts that ANFO rig was supposed to be touched off either.

[Bluedog]

You are right Laz, among other things,I work in security , and have a concealable licence for work. Whilst in the employ of a registered security firm, I am licenced to carry a firearm, either overtly or concealed.
I had to get it to be able to legally be in possesion of a pair of handcuffs and an extendable baton, the firearm was just a side bonus, its all the same licence.
I allso have a club licence for handguns, allowing me to shoot at the range regardless of wether or not I am 'at work'.
Neither of these allow me to walk down town on my day off with a handgun on my person.
Your average Jo Aussie citizen doesnt have a concealed carry permit, and doesnt walk around armed, but that hasn't changed one little bit for a long time, Port Arthur and the resulting law changes here had no effect on handgun ownership and carry laws, it never has been legal for just anyone to be walking around with a handgun down here.
Apologies if I misled anyone on that point.


I have to agree that the whole Port Arthur investigation seems screwed up and has whopping big holes in it, what I dont understand is why only do half the job, why not in fact ban all guns period, they could just as easily have passed a total ban law as one banning only semi-autos.
I mean, if you are going to go to the extent of setting up a a massacre in order to scare *****e out of Johnny Public, why not take full advantage of the uproar and ban the lot in one fell swoop?

Were it not for that point, I would whole heartedly agree it was a setup to get the guns out of Aussie citizens hands.

The number of rounds fired to headshot kills ratio in the time frame given at Port Arthur is something I hadnt seen pointed out before, and if true, it is a very interesting point.....also that Bryant is left handed, and all reports give the gunman firing from his right hip.
Not to mention the whole lack of coronial inquiry, immediate solitary confinement etc.
The photo of the seagulls sittting just outside calmly eating left over chips, supposedly as the gunman runs from the cafe after letting of 30 or so rounds doesnt quite add up either, even from inside a building, an M16 firing 30 rounds is going to make enough noise to scare a bunch of seagulls into flight.
That photo was definately not taken immediately after the shootings took place.

[Bluedog]

Originally posted by Hangtime
BE SKEPTICAL.. but keep digging.

 

Good advice IMHO

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Hangtime
I think ATF was poised to do a 'save the day' interdiction of a frame/enablement of some crackpot militia group. I think FBI smelled a rat and got onto it. I think ATF jumped the gun or FBI missed a trick.. and the blasts went off because of a major communications screw up at ATF between it's field operatives and operational control.

I don't think the building was supposed to be dropped. I think ATF was supposed to get an 'atta-boy' bone for the 'discovery' of it's planted explosives, the public to be distracted from Klinton's shenanigans with an aide, and the resultant 'public outcry' against the rights militias and dissenter groups were to justify pervious ATF/FBI blunders at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

I think that after the fact the government went ape-**** trying to cover it's inter-agency screw up.

And, what i think is unimportant. What is important is the governemnt is definitly lying and supressing evidence. i came to my conclusion after sifting through the info from credible sources (that the government is lying about Oklahoma City) and trying to take a stab at what I think.. not what anybody else says, then you should look at the data and draw yer own conclusions.

If yer like me and your convinced that the government is lying... then whats your conclusion for 'why'? I'd bet my bottom dollar those bombs inside the building were supposed to be FOUND, not detonated, and I have my doubts that ANFO rig was supposed to be touched off either.

Well I will honestly say that I read through the site and it does say some interesting things.  It does sound entirly plausable that the ryder truck didn't have the umph to take down the building like that.

but, like I said, it's the motive part I'm having problems with.  If in fact there was a cover up at the govt level it sounds more likely to me that this whole thing was a sting operation gone to far and/or the govt doesn't want the world to know about it's screw up.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by lazs2
.... this "shoot em in the head from the hip every 1.5 sec" marksman who could hit a driver of a fast moving car and then dissable it with an engine shot...

Walk into a cafe, think about how hard it is to shoot people in the head (btw it wasn't just headshots, it was neck shots that were counted as headshots) with a rifle at a couple of meters range.

Seriously lazs, did you even read the article?

[Toad]

A left-hander firing from the right hip did that, eh?

Seriously, have any of you tried hipshooting a rifle at anything head/neck size and cranking out the rounds every 1.5 seconds?

The guy was obviously a rifle phenom. And learnt it all on an air rifle. Jeez, let him out of prison to instruct Special Forces!

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Toad
A left-hander firing from the right hip did that, eh?

Seriously, have any of you tried hipshooting a rifle at anything head/neck size and cranking out the rounds every 1.5 seconds?

The guy was obviously a rifle phenom. And learnt it all on an air rifle. Jeez, let him out of prison to instruct Special Forces!

If it takes US Special forces to hit a melon sized target at 2 metres from the hip every 2 seconds (remember , 1.5 is an ESTIMATE/GUESS) then your military is in serious trouble and expect Mexico and Canada to invade as we type.

[Debonair]

Mexico is invading, they just cant afford weapons.
Canada also invades regularly, but just quick raids for cheap smokes & fuel.  Then they go home

[-tronski-]

Ludicrous...pathletic and sad.....

 Tronsky

[lazs2]

vulcan... he wasn't shooting at 6"x6" melons on a shelf... he was shooting at panicked people who were moving and ducking and all around him and he was doing it from the hip.

It seems hard to believe that such a guy could then fire over 200 rounds when under siege from behind cover and not hit a thing.

I doubt that many here could hit 2 melon sized targets at 12 feet that were moving sideways and up and down in any length of time with a 30 round mag.    If you added lots of people on all sides screaming and panicking.... it would be worse not better.

bluedog....  I do not think that the people who were behind this massacre even thought that the gun bans would be this successful...  I would say that in the world of incramentalim.... it was a HUGE victory.   Gun control nuts from around the world about wet their panties over how you guys folded.... next to the U.S.  you guys were the big kahouna...  the prize.  

now you are simply an example of what can be done by siezing the moment.....slow propoganda and billions of dollars over decades did not do a hundredth of what a massacre accomplishes.

We will see more and we will see more panic laws that increase government control.

lazs

[lukster]

I have no idea if any of this has been reported accurately but you'll win the bet lazs. Unless the guy was a highly skilled and talented shooter there's no way in hell he could have shot more than one or two people in the head from the hip. Even those would be extremely lucky shots for an average shooter. The only people that would believe otherwise are the ones that never tried shooting from the hip or at a moving target. Happens all the time and looks easy on TV though don't it?

I took a concealed handgun class a couple of years ago. During the instruction we were told that among Dallas cops involved in shootings, 85% of the first shots missed their targets. These folks are trained and practice regularly.

With all the conspiracy theories thrown around at the US it's kind of interesting to see others reactions.

[Saintaw]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Couldn't resist.... temptation too great...

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177130&highlight=million

ROFL!!!