Author Topic: Energy fighting  (Read 1613 times)

Offline Hawco

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Energy fighting
« on: June 07, 2006, 06:02:55 PM »
Could someone explain the difference between BNZ and energy fighting?
I get confused between the 2 and an example of a good energy plane would be most welcome!
Cheers and thanks a lot!

Hawco

Offline TequilaChaser

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Energy fighting
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2006, 06:22:01 PM »
Boom and Zoom  "tactic"
The key element to remember when in the boom and zoom mode is to stay fast and start with an altitude advantage. you start out with an energy advantage(meaning alt + speed), then make a number of dives on your target, maneuvering in order to get a shot as you pass, only to climb again back up to your higher altitude in which you dove from.
You can make a number of different extensions after making your pass, a) go near vertical and climb straight up, b) do a shallow climb maintaining the speed you acquired during the dive to extend well out of harms way, or c) do a Zoom climb (No Load climb) this zoom climb method is the quickest way to recover alt you have given up during the attacking dive. Once you regain your alt advantage reacquire your target and repeat as necessary until you manage to kill the enemy or you run out of energy.  It forces the enemy to maneuver to avoid you, but usually does not allow him to apply any pressure to you (although maybe a HO if he gets his nose pointed at you).  Each time you make your attack, you climb back up to a position of relative safety (at least from the enemy you are attacking).  Even if there are a number of enemies at a level below you, you are only vulnerable during the time at the bottom of each pass, when you are fastest and a tough target.

BnZ style fighting tends to be the safest, least advanced style which requires little more than some precise timing. In the Aces high II hangar you will find some planes that are more suited to BnZ since you intend to spend more time at higher speeds than a typical TnB fight.  It doesn’t rely as much on your sustained turning ability, more so relying on having enough turn rate to get into position to attack an enemy who is maneuvering to avoid your quick and slashing passes.  Continuously tracking the enemy to win angles is not the primary goal.  You are instead trying to predict where the enemy is going to be when you arrive in guns range, constantly updating your course until you take your shot, or decide you cannot make the shot and return to your higher perch.

Energy Fighting

The E Fighting style (energy fighting), is often confused with the BnZ fighting style (boom & zoom fighting), when in actuality that couldn’t be more further from the truth. Yes BnZ is part of E fighting but that is about as far as it goes. The Energy fighter is the purist of the combat fighter pilots, one who has attained the skills of the boom & zoom fighting style and has combined them with the skills of the turn & burn fighting style (stall fighting). He is aggressively offensive by nature yet maintains the patience needed to quarrel his victim until the most opportune time.
To Energy fight you must think both offensive (attacker) mode and defensive (defender) modes at the same time. You must never enter an engagement with less energy, whether your advantage is in altitude, speed, or both. This doesn’t necessarily mean you must always have the alt advantage by no means. One can still have a greater E advantage and still be the lower opponent of the two. For this to work though you must have the ability to tell upon a glance that you are in the catbird’s seat though. SA (situational awareness) plays a big role here.

The E Fighting pilot has taken into account every aspect of the fight offered to him, he has studied his plane in and out and knows his plane’s limitations from one end of the flight envelope all the way to the other(from blackout to stall). He has studied each and every type of fighter he might come up against and has learned the advantages and weakness of each, according to how they compare with the plane he is flying, so he knows upfront what he can and can not do depending on which plane he engages. The E fighter pilot will use his advantages and make his opponent fly to his opponent’s own weaknesses, not letting his opponent use the advantages of his opponent’s plane.

Working the process of E fighting means to use low G pulling maneuvers and banking your energy (converting speed to alt) until you bleed your opponent of his energy. At this time you carefully use your SA skills in watching his plane and the way it acts in relation to you and the maneuvers you exercise against him. At times the energy Fighter will be able to use Higher G maneuvers when he is sure he is out of the way of danger and has a substantial energy advantage to do so, most times these High G maneuvers will be in the vertical or near vertical plane of flight, to acquire and store more E to cash in on when needed. As the E fighter bleeds his victim down to a wobbling chunk of metal in the sky he is also scanning the skies of Aces High to keep a look out for any incoming threats. Incase there is, he has that saved up E to evade, extend and setup again, but if the skies appear clear he then uses his E advantage and pounces his prey. He has bled him to where the prey can not evade his onslaught of attacks now and the E fighter has scored another pelt, all by using patience, SA, and aggressiveness.

The Energy fighter does not give in to the opponent whether the opponent is a BnZ type or a Turn n Burn type, no sir. He makes the Boom and Zoomer bleed his E to where the BnZer weakens and then turns the tables to acquire the E advantage, He hides his energy well and gives the BnZer a false presentation making the BnZer think he has the advantage when he doesn’t, it is often too late for the BnZer once he realizes the tables have turned against him.
As for the Turn and Burn fighter pile-it, The E fighter will act as if he is going to turn with his victim, yet he does not commit to the full extent, he uses oblique turns and out of plane maneuvers to bleed the TnBer until he knows he has the substantial Energy advantage then he suckers the TnBer into thinking he can attain a guns solution and leaves him wollering nose high when he turns the tables and attacks.

Energy Plane: F4U   FW190  P51 P38  Yak C205
Boom N Zoom Plane: P51  P47   Typhoon  La7  

just  1 view
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Hawco

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Energy fighting
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2006, 06:40:48 PM »
Thanks for that TC, very informative, given me some food for thought there

Offline Flit

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Energy fighting
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2006, 09:31:17 PM »
Lol, wow TC, that was a great write-up

Offline Max

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Energy fighting
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 09:47:24 PM »
Great write-up TC. That should be a "stickey". Drop Skuzzy an e-mail and I'm sure he'd do  that.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Energy fighting
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2006, 09:57:48 PM »
Thanks  Hawco, Flit, Maxie for the comments.........

the BnZ theory is an edited version of how soda ( the AH trainer  & Author of Soda's Plane comparisons website ) views BnZ...so I would say about 60% or so is his words with some additional comments/thoughts from me...... I could not take full credit for this, for Soda started it and typed most of it.

The E Fighting is my theory......

these 2 lil theorys are just a very small taste of the Aces High Training Manual, the Training staff have been working on, which hopefully will be released in full very soon......
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline SAS_KID

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Energy fighting
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 09:59:45 PM »
i find that BnZ is coming from the stratoshpere and Boom your enemy then Zoom away:Rinse and Repeat

E fighting: Try to make your oppenent slow while you have stored up E with alt or Zoom advantage and make em slow then you BnZ them to death. Or rope the dope. Or use your E advantage to get behind them or use the vertical more to store even more E while they try to follow and stall out and fall prey to your guns.
Quote from: hitech on Today at 09:27:26 AM
What utter and compete BS, quite frankly I should kick you off this bbs for this post.

The real truth is you do not like the answer.

HiTech

Offline TequilaChaser

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Energy fighting
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2006, 10:12:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SAS_KID
i find that BnZ is coming from the stratoshpere and Boom your enemy then Zoom away:Rinse and Repeat
 



IF a pilot/player is doing the BnZ tactic, he should realize anything over 3k to 4k above /  above and away from the defender is a waste.
One can easily maintain a constant B n z attack and only extend no more than this distance, if one was to go further out or up on the extending, then he allows his prey to gain energy, or equalize the E states and can most times  keep his attacker at bay, denying him a shot because the bnZ attacker is being sloppy with his attacks & extending....Boozer was an excellent Trainer back some 10+ years ago, and I remember it like yesterday how he went about teaching proper  BnZ tactics.........you still will want to be agressive in your attacks, but keeping the safety net of SPEED in your pocket for re attaining alt and seperation for the reversal to make another fast speed slashing attack....
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Pooface

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Energy fighting
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2006, 06:06:52 AM »
yup pretty much what TC said...



the 109's are the perfect example, cruddy in a turnfight, but in an energy fight, combining lots of ACM's, vertical maneuvers and the like, it will defeat spits, and that's how it works.

energy fighting is that style of fighting that you see from the decent pilots. they dont just turn and turn like a braindead vegetable, but link maneuvers, try to gain an energy advantage in order to make the fight easier for themselves. take for example infensus in his 109f4, as a turnfighter it sucks, but used in the vertical, used properly, it can kill about anything nowadays:aok

infact, the BEST advice i can give you hawco is to go to KoTH on friday, or the american one on the next saturday, most of the people in there are really great pilots, and the fastest way to learn how to E fight is to die in one:D

and if you'd like a little practise/tuition, find me in the TA, im usually in there now, instead of the MA, and i'll show you some things:)

Offline Oldman731

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Energy fighting
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2006, 07:14:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Working the process of E fighting means to use low G pulling maneuvers and banking your energy (converting speed to alt) until you bleed your opponent of his energy.  

That's it in a nutshell.  Anyone have Bullethead's old description of E-fighting?

- oldman

Offline TexMurphy

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Energy fighting
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2006, 08:52:17 AM »
TC

Great writeup!!!

One thing though... A E fighter does NOT have to engage with an E advantage nor does he constantly need to maintain a E advantage...

In most cases, yes he does, in most cases, yes he should...

But there are cases when I do want a e disadvantage situation and put my self in it.

As you said constantly think attack and defense. But also counter attack.

I do use alot of reverses as part of my E fighting. I always do it as part of my BnZ defense but also as part of the E fight it self.

Example is when I fight 109G2+ in the Yak9U.

They do out climb me and eventually the will climb away from me if I dont kill them quickly. I then give them my six and try to lure them into a dive with me. I manouver much better in a dive when they do and actually use their E advantage against them.

When I do my reverse they cant follow and if they try they bleed tons and tons of E.

This allows me to turn the steaks and get into a firing solution.

Alot of pilots do overcommit when they see your six and when they see a E advantage. Over commitment is the ultimate tool for counter attacks.

Tex

Offline Pooface

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Energy fighting
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2006, 09:30:01 AM »
yup, you can have a positive energy and a negative energy advantage. positive energy advantage is the most common, guy with more speed comes in from higher up, he has that positive energy advantage over the opponent that he can use.

negative energy would be using your low, slow position to force an overshoot and get an easy kill on a careless pilot :)

Offline Nifty

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Energy fighting
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2006, 12:08:15 PM »
Hawco, don't forget that you can use E fighting tactics in just about any plane.  If you find yourself in say a Spit vs Spit battle and the other guy just wants to turn and burn, you can use E fighting principles to win the day.

Other than, I don't have much to add.  Excellent synopsis!
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Offline Hawco

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Energy fighting
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2006, 01:43:13 PM »
When I'm in the spit 9, I find myself using some of these E principles and didn't even realise I was, I try and avoid the turn after turn and will use my alt and speed to saty fast and rope em, or pull a high g nearly vertical loop/turn thing. Didn't even realise I was in the E thing, Great feedback guys, think I'll up a 109 or 51 etc and throw myself out there and see what happens  in a different crate.
It's so dammned hard trying to leave a spit 9 in the Hanger lol :aok
Thanks all
Hawco

Offline Schatzi

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Energy fighting
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2006, 05:55:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
When I'm in the spit 9, I find myself using some of these E principles and didn't even realise I was, I try and avoid the turn after turn and will use my alt and speed to saty fast and rope em, or pull a high g nearly vertical loop/turn thing. Didn't even realise I was in the E thing, Great feedback guys, think I'll up a 109 or 51 etc and throw myself out there and see what happens  in a different crate.
It's so dammned hard trying to leave a spit 9 in the Hanger lol :aok
Thanks all
Hawco



LoL, I know that feeling..... hard to stay out of my Mk1 ;).



Energy fighting to me always has been a tactic, not a style. E-fighting I try to use difference in Energy states to my advantage and if they are to my DISadvantage, i try to change that. I basically do that in about every fight i get into, turn/stallfight or BnZ (even thoug the latter is very rare for me).

Will read that writeup tomorrow, when i can think a little more clearly :).
21 is only half the truth.