Allies vs Axis Arena: some reflexions

[teeri]

Damn, you're right! Why haven't I noticed it before Ok, clearly it doesn't attract people to AvA, so we have to come up with something else.

[storch]

those of us that play this arena. enjoy the fact that it is not as populated as the MA.  you get some great fights with 10-20 people on.  the Key for the staff is to not run unpopular sets.  this current set has been fun to me but the arena has been devoid of even the regulars.  I guess that the spit drivers are intimidated by the zeke, you can't just yank and bank your way to victory you must actually think and fight.  I was in the MA this AM for about five minutes, I played in a Ki61 even though I was lower three players all in late war planes would not come down to engage!!!!  eventually I climbed up up enough to have a late comer (P38G) come down to engage.  I shot him down after chasing him 1/2 way back to his base.  the others were too timid to give up their vultch perches.  The MA absolutely sucks IMHO. I don't think I'll even bother with the TOD/CT abomination if it involves any AI at all.  If the AvA were to be disbanded I'd be done with AH.  A friend and former AH player is working on some pretty exciting developements in a competitor game.  they are currently running open beta tests, if they continue to develope along the current lines I will probably be playing there most of the time.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by sparow
Beeing a true fan of historical correction and maximum realism as possible in a simulation,  

What you doing in the AvA then?

Been shown time and time again it's not historical planesets.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Kev367th
What you doing in the AvA then?

Been shown time and time again it's not historical planesets.

Why do you care?

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Kev367th
What you doing in the AvA then?

Been shown time and time again it's not historical planesets.

Heh.

It's still far more historical than the MA, dude.

- oldman

[TheBug]

Originally posted by sparow

Who cares if we're 20? Let's fly 200 miles to pick a fight, lets fly without radar and gps maps when airborne. Let's go "orthodox" and go as near as possible of the real thing. Let's make it so hard that people says: «AvA? Are u crazy? Its full of geeks, just waiting to chew you up!». Lets have night and fog and low cloud.


Sparrow

I think that sounds perfect Sparrow and would definitely draw me back to the AvA.  But you will never cut through the red tape that the AvA is.  Logic isn't a tool that gets things done.

But I am glad to see you take up the "fight"  There are quite a few that share your opinion of what the AvA could be, most have just become tired of working towards change without any progress.

But I wish you the best of luck  Your ideas and enthusiasm are great!

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Slash27
Why do you care?

I was going to post a lengthy reply to this, but if you really can't work out why numbers are low for the AvA try the following -

Look at the possibility of the AvA running as true AvA arena with planes being available when they historically were, as opposed to the personal playground for some LW squads with the resultant botched planesets.

Storch - I'm pretty sure I know which game and who your talking about. Been checking their forums recently, their planeset is going to be more unrealistic/flight of fancy than AH2's, although granted a much bigger choice.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Look at the possibility of the AvA running as true AvA arena with planes being available when they historically were, as opposed to the personal playground for some LW squads with the resultant botched planesets.

 

ah, a JG-54 bashing thread. Thats so 2004.









Kev, you have nothing to back this up but your opinion. Im not here to change your opinion.

[Kev367th]

Well my opinion yes, but I'm not the only one, go search some threads.

Botched planesets aren't my opinion - they are a FACT.

My whole squad flew in the AvA when it was launched just to try it out.
We flew the very first RPS.
Didn't mind or complain about the 1941 period, Vb v FW190, was historical after all.
Then came the changes -
WAAAAAAH the LW are at a disadvantage in mid/late 1944 - No problem, we'll just add the D9 4 months ahead of time.

Funny how during the 1941 period no Spit Vb pilots complained about the disadvantage.

Next it was WAHHHHH the XVI is so imbalancing - No problem, we'll just pretend it never existed and omit it from scenarios it actuall flew in.
Funnily enough one of MAIN reasons it wasn't given it's 1944 25lbs boost was to make it more suitable for scenarios etc.

I'm actually trying to get it re-tagged as the LF IXe and given an optional  1943 loadout of .303's so we have the LF IXc also. What you going to do then? Pretend it didn't exist also.

Soon after we decided it just wasn't for us, either be historical or advertise for what it truly is -
Axis v botched Allies planeset.

As for getting "the right people", there's part of your problem, what makes you lot so special.

[KONG1]

Why I fly the AvA:

1. When that little dot appears out of the haze odds are it’s going to try to shoot you down.
2. More engagements in a given time period
3. Variety of engagements: You get some 1v1, some furballs, everything in between.
4. Variety of adversaries.

I personally don’t want alterations that change these things.

Notice I said –personally-.  I’ve no problem with guys that want some uber historical type of setup.  What is mildly irritating is how it’s expressed.

“ I have a superior point of view, if the arena were my way it would be better.  Anyone who doesn’t want it my way is inherently inferior.  The lessor beings screw up any efforts to create a proper environment so they shall not be blessed with my presence.  Hopefully, one day, the plebeians will ascend to my point of view.”

In all actuality this idiosyncratic mindset is an indicator of inferior intellectual functioning.

Historical play means (among other things): Flying as a group (squad) with a leader calling the shots. Said leader having a predetermined assignment No dar, one life, decreased visibility, no icons, no choice of planes, hours of just flying around, and maybe an average of one engagement every two sorties.

Here’s a clue. Squad ops are just like that. Go - play - have fun.  An open arena where people wander in and out and do their own thing can’t be like that.

[Shifty]

Kev you could use the low numbers from the last two setups to back up your opinon. One of which Finn/Russ is always so highly toughted as the best. Don't bother though because they just won't listen .
Vote with your feet and let em play themselves.

Most of your ideas are good ones sparrow, good luck I'd like to see you have some success with them. One thing though , you mentioned turning the AVA into an Expertan Ghetto....... I'd argue it's a ghetto already , and like all ghetteos people move out and leave it to the thugs.

[KONG1]

A word on numbers: Low numbers are not a problem.  Get 60 people in the AvA and game play will be identical to the MA.

Now for something you can’t argue with:

If you want to know how to set up a WWII flight sim arena to attract the MOST numbers look at the MA. Never been any more populated and growing all the time.



Note to Kev: Set up a H2H arena the way you would like it with the planes the way you want them. I’m willing to wager that despite being free to the entire world you can’t keep 8 in there. At least you can fly in a correct environment.


Edit: Shifty, the thug remark cracked me up.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Shifty
Kev you could use the low numbers from the last two setups to back up your opinon. One of which Finn/Russ is always so highly toughted as the best. Don't bother though because they just won't listen .
Vote with your feet and let em play themselves.

Most of your ideas are good ones sparrow, good luck I'd like to see you have some success with them. One thing though , you mentioned turning the AVA into an Expertan Ghetto....... I'd argue it's a ghetto already , and like all ghetteos people move out and leave it to the thugs.

Thats the problem, they are so wrapped up in thier own little world they can't, or refuse to see any problems.
They just sit and wonder why the numbers are low.

Why would you guess that the initial very high numbers in the AvA when it renamed has now dwindled back to the 'old core'.
How about NOTHING really changed apart from the name, and people very quickly reconised it for what it was, a sham.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by KONG1



Edit: Shifty, the thug remark cracked me up.

Yeah I'm waiting for OM to come in and make the Shifty forgot to take his meds quoate any minute.

[sparow]

Gentlemen, please...

Lets stay focused. I thank you all for your input, this is the kind of collective reflexion that is needed from time to time. Let's not personalize it, or divert to who has the best planes and when...

As you know, I fly 99,999% british and american aircraft and a few years have passed since I upped in other than bishop or allied colors. You may even think that it is silly of me to do so, I know it is, I miss the opportunity to fly very good machines like zekes, 109's and 190's. But that's a personal choice, I know that I am missing part of the experience but I accept that.

Tell me: why do we need such elaborate maps for so few pilots. Lets assume that we are not attract more than 20/30 players, tops. Why can't we have a map with 3 or 4 bases for each side, preferably, the closest possible to historical reality and two or three tactical targets? To dogfigth we need to have 30 fields to each side? No.

And if we keep the maps, why can´t we fill them up with pilots? Do we need to advertise AvA? Maybe.

About planesets...We ave difficulties in setting up some scenarios because there are a few models missing. That's a fact. But we could avoid "substitution" planesets. They are fictional, incorrect and, many times, they fail to do what they were supposed to do. Maybe we should stick with the ones we have and build the setups accordingly, even if a bit more repetitive.

But, if the maps where part of the large ones and the objectives were tactical, maybe we could use better the planes we currently have. For instance, MTO: instead of one big map, we could break it into several smaller maps, in sequence, depicting operations or even missions, instead of trying to re-enact a whole campaign...

CBI, early PTO, Greece or Cyprus, Malta, Aleutians and so on, are maps hardly used...

Ah, and another thing: I don't believe in balanced setups. Historically balanced switched regularly from one side to the other at the rithm of tecnical or industrial advances.  The problem rises mostly from the fact that resources (planes) are unlimited here. More than one IJN carrier turned back home not because of damage, but because he had run out of planes and pilots...

About the monthly AvA bash, that might be a good idea. It would be fun.

One last thing: when I said "right people" I didn't wanted to look discriminating whatsoever. When I say that I mean people that enjoys historical engagements in demanding conditions.

Going to fly a bit now, will check our debate later,

Cya all soon,

Sparrow