Beating a ticket

[x0847Marine]

I got a parking ticket in Pasadena & decided to fight it using my law enforcement experience... but how I won is common sense.

When the 'officer' arrives to court for some citations like speeding or metered parking, s/he must bring some evidence of calibration / service for the specific meter you were parked at.

I argued the parking meter cheated me by 5 min, the parking attendant brought the service records for a different meter and I won.

...these service records are great to expose how inaccurate some meters are as well, even if s/hed brought the right one I could still win.

For speeding tickets it should say either "paced" or "radar" on the citation.

Paced means the officer followed you and used his speed-o to determine your speed. Police cars go through AAA sponsored calibration, and they are almost never accurate. The officer must produce this calibration in court, if he says you were 10MPH over but his calibration is off +/- 5, you have a great chance of winning, or paying a hell of a lot less. If he forgets or brings calibration for a unit he was not driving that day... you win.

A few times I showed up to court before noticing the unit I had been driving was off by up to 15 MPH, I let the court clerk know and she dismissed the charges..

Police cars take a beating, units get wrecked, break and are otherwise abused almost 24/7.. the speed-o-meters are no exception and sometimes after a crash cars dont get calibrated right away, or at all.

Radar means, duh, radar.. these too must be calibrated, and they are almost always off by a few MPH. I used to calibrate my radar using a tuning fork, if I didn't... the Coke machine clocked in at 40-43MPH. Make the officer prove his radar isn't screwed.

You can also have your car calibrated, I think AAA will do it, if its way off you can turn a speeding ticket, moving violation, into a "fix it" or equipment violation; think insurance costs.

For parking tickets, look up the violation and read it. If the law says a sign must be posted every 100 feet and the signs are gone, unreadable or blocked by tree growth... you win.  If the paint on the curb / sign is faded or otherwise not clear,  you can win.

You'll need clear pictures to make your case.

Some state laws even define how big the font on a sign must be, most private parties buy signs at hardware stores that may, or may not be legal in your state....  a legal no parking sign in Colorado might not be in Cali

The "system" is using the letter of the law against you, its only fair you can stick the same pissant regulations up their brown eye.

Last but vital, the 1st question the traffic judge usually asks the officer is what you said when the officer contacted you... the officers copy of the ticket has space where s/he can leave notes you will never see, I used to jot down what the drivers said here... if the officer says you admitted to speeding, ask to see the officers copy... it might just say you were an A hole or jerk with nothing about speeding.

[nirvana]

You're threads are not only entertaining, but educational, thanks Marine!

[M36]

Oh my, that was very entertaining. I love hearing free legal advice from the experts.

Bet you cant get out of one of my tickets.

[B@tfinkV]

well, i got a ticket 4 months ago day and ripped t up. heard nothing since.

[Shamus]

I once got a ticket for parking in a handicaped spot, had my datestamp film camera with me and took some shots showing the blue stripes covered with snow, the sign was missing, judge took one look and dismissed.

shamus

[parker00]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
well, i got a ticket 4 months ago day and ripped t up. heard nothing since.

Careful because the next time you get pulled over you may find your suspended. Happened to my wife a few years back before she changed her address. She was in an accident and they mailed a ticket to her parents house but they never gave her the mail and the next time she was pulled over they almost took her to jail. The officer let her go because she was crying her eyes out and he believed her that she didn't know about it.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by parker00
Careful because the next time you get pulled over you may find your suspended. Happened to my wife a few years back before she changed her address. She was in an accident and they mailed a ticket to her parents house but they never gave her the mail and the next time she was pulled over they almost took her to jail. The officer let her go because she was crying her eyes out and he believed her that she didn't know about it.

They do that in California too, but...  although your license is suspended there's a "service code" entered into the JDIC (the "system"). They indicate things like the letter was mailed & returned... usually, if the officer even knows about service codes, you wont be arrested and may not lose your car if the service code indicates it was sent via regular snail mail and you claim not to know.

A sharp trooper will then fill out a DMV notice of service form, meaning from that instant on.. your good to go to jail & lose the car.

Traffic laws, and the system in place to rush us through like cattle, is a draconian farce.... but you'll never get a true politician to care because chicken-spackle fines amount to millions in revenue. The City of Beverly Hills is one of the worst, or best... BH generates almost as much parking fine $$ as the City of Los Angeles, LA is about 20x bigger. They prey on visitors with confusing local parking laws, meters everywhere with a small army of meter maids at the ready.

It used to be that a higher level of training was required to issue a citation, Ca law says who can write a ticket and who cant... at least reserve police officer training was needed. Now cities (like West Hollywood) can contract to private companies who put people through an 8 hr class and send them out with a cite machine that spits out tickets with the push of a few buttons.

Plus you must pay the fine in advance of fighting it, guess who collects interest on your $$?.. a city can techinaclly lose every contested parking citation and still earn some change.

[Furious]

Originally posted by x0847Marine
...Plus you must pay the fine in advance of fighting it, guess who collects interest on your $$?.. a city can techinaclly lose every contested parking citation and still earn some change.

And that's the crappy thing about it.  It's not about public safety, it's a revenue stream.

[CAVY]

Well....former MARINE here.....I would respond to you in detail...however I'm out issuing summonses to idots like you....

[Holden McGroin]

I was involved in a 1 1/2 hour, 120+ mph chase, but when my tires were shredded and they finally pitted me, between intermittant profanity and violence I told the officer in a very polite tone that he was mistaken and was really chasing somebody else.

I think I will use some of your advice and see if I can get a decent ruling.

[Flatbar]

I got a speeding ticket last month but there was no doubt that I was guilty.

I hopped onto the freeway on my cycle and was greeted by clear lanes and decided to, um, accelerate quickly. At about 85 I backed off and cruised a bit between 85-90 before slowing to 75, this in a 65 zone.

Behind me in the distance I see another bike getting closer fast, expecting to see a ricer fly past me I was suprised when my next glance in my mirriors I saw the flashing red and blue lights.

I pulled over on a wide area alongside a deceleration lane for an offramp. The cop was at first rather curt and he explained to me that he was going to pull over a car that was behind me after I got on the freeway but I got his attention because I was going faster and I suppose that my debaffeled pipes may have helped in getting his attention.

To get to the point, the cop was actually a cool guy, we talked motorcycles, laying them down and fun roads in the area and other related stuff while he was writing me up. He did give me a break by writing me up for 75mph but I know that I was going faster.

I was guilty, no doubt about it, I took the ticket with a smile and shook the officers hand and mentioned a group ride the next weekend, he showed up for it on a beautiful ruby red Road King.

The ticket worked as designed, I watch my speed closer and my mirriors for cops less now.

Maybe beating a ticket when you know you were guilty blows some peoples skirts up but for me, when a person is guilty and gets caught he/she should own up to their deeds and take the punishment perscribed by law. Trying to wiggle out on technicality's when you're guilty as sin seems to be what a lot of people on this board rile against defense lawers for. It isn't for me but I guess YMMV.

[Maverick]

Flatbar,

Nice comments there. I commend you for being a responsible adult.

Before anyone tries to use the "strategy" that x0847Marine has posted about you might want to consider something. What he has posted, if true, may work in his particular jurisdiction. Don't count on it to work anywhere else.

Requiring "calibration records" is by far not universal. What he neglected to indicate also was the calibration tests the manufacturer of the unit provides for field use and the procedure the court has already approved for determineing accuracy of the unit including how often the unit's calibration must be checked. I did the calibtation check before and after each stop the radar was used for.

As to the comment regarding error in the radar units.  If he used a unit that gave ANY error to write a ticket he screwed up. A coke machine is hardly an approved calibration test device for anything, even a thermometer. Writing without having tested calibration, not calibrating as users are not authorized to calibrate it only test it, places the Officer in the position of writing an estimated only ticket (not necessarily a bad ticket) instead of a radar clocked ticket. The individual Officer also has (at least in my home state) to be trained and certified to use the radar / laser device for speed clocking. Also they had to be trained in visual speed estimation and have a consistent ability to do visual speed estimation before using the device to confirm a speeding violation. Plus or minus 3 MPH is not uncommon visually as long as you remain in practice. Radar doesn't give you the speed, it only confirms it, again in my home state.

Cars do have speedometers that can be and are frequently off. Ours came from the factory with a fancy sticker saying they were calibrated at manufacture. We checked them against radar and found up to 7 or more MPH error in 35 to 45 mph range. Thank you very much for the speedo's Ford. After that they were checked by the shops at each maintenance interval and a calibrated correction sticker placed on the speedo to show the amount of error. Records of this were also not required for court.

Lastly most traffic violations are known as non intentional violations. In other words you do not have to prove intent, only that the violation occured. In regards to speeding if your speedometer is in error it's up to you the driver to be aware of it and drive accordingly. If you exceed the limit by 1 MPH you are still in violation. If you exceed it by 15 and the speedometer of the clocking vehicle was off by 5 mph you are still speeding. The error of the clocking vehicle is not a get out of jail free situation on a ticket in many jurisdictions. Then again, some judges will decide things one way one day and the opposite on others. It can be the luck of the draw at times.

I saw one judge that admitted in open court that if a woman had to get a babysitter just to appear in court he felt they had a valid defense and would dismiss the violation, even before they testified. Go figure.

[zorch]

See Rule #4, #5

[nirvana]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I was involved in a 1 1/2 hour, 120+ mph chase, but when my tires were shredded and they finally pitted me, between intermittant profanity and violence I told the officer in a very polite tone that he was mistaken and was really chasing somebody else.

I think I will use some of your advice and see if I can get a decent ruling.

Good luck, although I don't think you will need it.

[M36]

And that's the crappy thing about it. It's not about public safety, it's a revenue stream.

Not really Furious, it is about public safety. The only way to get someone to stop their bad driving is by getting into their wallet where it hurts those stupid people the most. If you dont want to pay fines and support the revenue system, then follow the simple rules.