Author Topic: Can HTC eliminate external view on Ar234 and Mosquito. (Read 2888 times)

SKurj · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2001, 09:02:00 AM »

Guys.... it could well be hard coded that all "bomber" class aircraft have the external view. And the mossie with present code would be a "bomber".
The Il2, has the external view as well, which I think in its case is not really justified. I think for an aircraft like the IL2 the 6 view should actually be the gunner's perspective at the dead 6 position. anyways gettin offtopic.

Perhaps HT can code a separate class of aircraft, for the Mossie, Il2, 234, Stuka, Bf110, Val, Kate, Dauntless, Judy, B6N oops hey look ... a new class of aircraft which would have a new view system is justified.

Class: Attack Aircraft/Zerstorers

Any with a single gunner: Pilot's 6 view is thru the eyes of the gunner until the gunner is killed. No external view.
Any with no gunner, no external view

SKurj

Pongo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2001, 09:54:00 AM »

I dont know. in the case of the mossie the pilot has an extra set of eyes not currently in any other 'fighter' in the game. That has to count for something.

Pyro · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2001, 10:05:00 AM »

Right now, it's just done by vehicle class. There's no specific flag to turn it on or off outside of that. We'll probably break it out to a separate setting at some point when we get a chance.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2001, 10:07:00 AM »

They sit within inches of each other and there is no way to see under the plane. So no the extra crewman who sits in the same cockpit only inches away doesnt meet the AH idia of gunner stations all around plane.

BTW the Mosquito canopy is some 3-4 feet wide thats only a bit bigger than most AH fighters.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2001, 10:26:00 AM »

Cool! Pyro do you mean that planes like Ar234 or Mosqito or a ppssible Me110 or Me410 wouldnt have external view?

Hmmm and just curious is there time to do this for Ar234 and Mosquito for v108 as trial run to see what impact it has?

Rifle · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2001, 10:28:00 AM »

I just have to put my 2 cents worth in here.

Yes, the Mossie crew sat side by side in a 3ft wide canopy, but the 'navigator' sat several inches back and a few inches lower on the pilots right side.

His sole job while not 'navigating' was to look for enemy a/c on their rear (4 to 8 o'clock0. This was many times accomplished by standing up (crouched) and scanning around.

Lets see if they get the front windscreen right ... oh yeah and the overall view from the cockpit too.

(Mk IV and Mk VI had different windscreen configuration.)

Cheers,
Rifle

Beefcake · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2001, 10:46:00 AM »

My 2 cents, leave the 234 alone, it sucks enough as it is. If you take way external view then the pilot has no way of seeing behind him, which is not fair as a plane could easily sneak up on it, and plus it cost so much in perkies. Now if HTC gets the scope to work and adds the guns it is supposed to have then I might change my veiws. Now about the Mossie, I'm not sure. I can't judge it till I fly it.

SOB · « **Reply #22 on:** August 25, 2001, 11:09:00 AM »

I think for 60 perkies they can leave the external view for the Arado. It's only defence is SA and running. Besides, it's not like being sneaky pays of when chasing one down...the only thing that matters is getting in firing range.

SOB

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #23 on:** August 25, 2001, 11:20:00 AM »

The Me262 wiil be an expensive perk too, should that have a 3D view?

And the second Mossie crewman could not see anything the pilot coudnt, and certainly not under the pane. Plus there is actualluy cery little "rear" view from the mossie cockpit anyway.

So what if the 234 cost perkies, it couldnt see 3D external in RL anyway.

Rifle · « **Reply #24 on:** August 25, 2001, 11:47:00 AM »

Grun: WRONG !

That's the same as saying the driver in a car has the same all-round field of view as his passenger beside him. The Fields of vision are totally different. Especially since the 'navigator' could and did unstrap himself to scan behind.

Cheers,
Rifle

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #25 on:** August 25, 2001, 11:54:00 AM »

Not really, what Im reffering to is the overal view. You see the current justification for AH bomber 3D external views is that the bomber has many gun postions and crew postions. For example B17 has top turret, waist guns, ball turret, tail guns, nose postions and the cockpit. What those people can see is substantialy different than what the pilots see. For example again A B17 ball gunner can see under the plane, the Pilot cannot.

The Mossie crewmember cannot see under the plane nor can the pilot. So they really do have the same view limitations considering they are both in a very cramped and cntralized space only inches apart from each other.

You see what I mean?

Fariz · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2001, 12:03:00 PM »

Strange, but for once I agree with Gruen.

Having external view on arado is not logical. Actually I think same about il-2 also, with its 2 man crew which you can easily switch between if you want to check your 6, and no bomb view to see under the plane.

When I am flying il-2 I try not to use external view -- using it makes me feel like in h2h or in early beta with external views allowed.

Fariz

SKurj · « **Reply #27 on:** August 25, 2001, 02:01:00 PM »

Well if you guys read pyro's post, the mossie will have an external view until more aircraft classes are added. At present we have Bomber, Fighter. Bombers get external view all of them cuz the game is hardcoded as such.
Fighters don't. I don't know what other issues maybe hardcoded with the bombers.
Where do you guys think Mossie missions should be scored? as fighters/attack or as Bombers/attack?
We don't have the option of scoring as fighter/attack/bomber, so we would have to sacrifice something.

As far as where to score the Mossie, if you aren't gonna fly it more than occasionally don't reply to how it should be scored.
if scored as bomber/attack it becomes classed as bomber. if scored as fighter/attack, it gets classed as fighter.

SKurj

SOB · « **Reply #28 on:** August 25, 2001, 02:14:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
The Me262 wiil be an expensive perk too, should that have a 3D view?

Don't be a tard.

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
And the second Mossie crewman could not see anything the pilot coudnt, and certainly not under the pane. Plus there is actualluy cery little "rear" view from the mossie cockpit anyway.

So what if the 234 cost perkies, it couldnt see 3D external in RL anyway.

You can't deny the fact that having a second crewman will, at least, increase the overall SA in the cockpit. We don't have that here (unless you agree to join my plane every time I fly an Arado), and we don't have the 20mm guns out the back or the periscope. Whatever, I like it - realistic or not, and want it to stay...because:

1. It increases survivability in the Arado slightly.
2. It allows you to relax your SA a bit on those loooong boring rides to the target.
3. It allows you to look at your purty plane while it's flying.
4. It allows you to zoom down and look at your ground targets exploding.

SOB

Karnak · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2001, 02:22:00 PM »

GRUNHERZ,

From Pyro's post it sounds like you should be trying to get the Mosquito FB.VI to be listed in the Fighter category, not the Bomber category. With the FB.VI I can see it going into either category.

Pyro,

Can we get the Mosquito FB.VI listed in the Fighter and Attack categories?

Thanks