Author Topic: The possibility of aliens (Read 1596 times)

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #60 on:** August 26, 2006, 10:09:51 AM »

My dad actually knew Captain Mantell, a P-51 pilot who chased either a weather balloon or the planet Venus over Kentucky. Mantell unfortunately didn't have any oxygen on his plane, and passed out at 30,000 feet while chasing this object. He subsequently crashed.

I've noticed sometimes stars or planets seem to move if I just stand there and stare at them. Its like they are moving in random directions, a few inches each way. I can definately see how, in the closing days of WW2, that B-29 gunners fired at the planet Venus when it appeared extra bright low on the horizon.

Kurt · « **Reply #61 on:** August 26, 2006, 11:19:46 AM »

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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I'm not applying just 'human-needs' to the hypothetical aliens. I'm applying the needs to maintain life.

Kurt, the larger the organism, the more complex it is, and the less tolerance it has to extreme temperatures. For example, extremophile archae bacteria can live in 212 celsius water. But name a large organism that can. Same for colder temps.

Why do you assume that an organism needs to be large to be spacefaring or intelligent? More Earth based assumptions it seems...

Everything we know about biology is based on one single planet. If you're going to assume there are thousands of inhabited worlds then you are going to have to assume also that our knowledge of biology represents less than 1/1000th of the possibilities.

Kurt · « **Reply #62 on:** August 26, 2006, 11:43:06 AM »

Missed a point I meant to make Aqua... Cold is a lot more survivable than hot, on Earth anyhow, there are many large critters that handle cold very well, polar bears, whales, penguins etc.. So the size arguement really doesn't even completely hold water right here on earth.

vorticon · « **Reply #63 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:13:21 PM »

"

Why do you assume that an organism needs to be large to be spacefaring or intelligent? More Earth based assumptions it seems...
"

if its not large, wheres it going to hold its brain?

if it doesnt have opposable thumbs, how the hell will it hold tools to build things?

small organisms cant explore, they move to slow. even if there were a race of einsteins, they would never figure out there planet is round, or orbits around a sun, nor would they care - they'd be to busy building weapons to defend themselves against larger animals.

Kurt · « **Reply #64 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:39:30 PM »

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Originally posted by vorticon

if it doesnt have opposable thumbs, how the hell will it hold tools to build things?

I don't recall saying anything about who did or did not have opposable thumbs. Besides, I bet spider monkeys wonder how you do so many things without a prehensile tail...

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small organisms cant explore, they move to slow. even if there were a race of einsteins, they would never figure out there planet is round, or orbits around a sun, nor would they care - they'd be to busy building weapons to defend themselves against larger animals.

A lot of assumtions based once again on the knowledge of one biosphere.

You guys simply go on and on missing the point. You just cant wrap your brains around the idea that you can't make any assumptions about what the possibilites are. Every argument every post has simply been someone using examples from Earth. Since you have no examples from elsewhere there is no way you can make a blanket statement that a brain has to be a certain size, or that a creature can only live in a certain temperature etc. You just don't know.

The only difference between what I'm saying and what you guys keep trying to prove is that I'm smart enough to understand that this is something I do not understand... It seems many of you think you understand something you do not.

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #65 on:** August 26, 2006, 12:56:14 PM »

Whats wrong with using examples from Earth?

We know how the atoms go together, we know what molecules and macromolecules make up organisms capable of life.

If you believe in evolution (like I do), then life on other planets probably evolved like life on Earth. We're still playing by the same rules, just on another planet.

The aliens could either use logic or emotion when contacting earth. Logic would have them utilizing Earth for its resources. Emotion (if they even have any) may cause them to be peaceful and empathetic.

So they could see us as a : Threat, a resource, or as simple animals.

vorticon · « **Reply #66 on:** August 26, 2006, 01:00:46 PM »

"
You guys simply go on and on missing the point. You just cant wrap your brains around the idea that you can't make any assumptions about what the possibilites are. "

we can, all theoretical science is making assumptions. yes we there will be all sorts of stuff cropping up that we didnt even think about, but we can safely make assumptions about certain things - like the presence of opposable thumbs on anything that manages to get into space. of course, what they use as cows or whatever (if they even have "cows") could be damn near anything...

sort of like if in 1250 the british knew north america existed, they could have assumed there would be trees.

"
If you believe in evolution (like I do), then life on other planets probably evolved like life on Earth. We're still playing by the same rules, just on another planet."

similar to earth in some aspects, it'll do whatever it wants to so it will survive in the different enviroment. australia for example.

Chairboy · « **Reply #67 on:** August 26, 2006, 01:03:00 PM »

Just for giggles, there's a way to have intelligent life without a large creature.

For example, you have single cell critters where the cell contained the equivalent to a neuron plus the basic mechanisms needed for cell life. Whenever these single cell organisms cluster together, some chemical peculiarity to their environment allows the neurons to transmit from cell to cell. Perhaps at some point, these start functioning as some sort of hive mind or massively distributed intelligence.

The more of these guys that live in a place, the smarter they are. They do all their manipulation of their environment with cilia.

This is a common excercise for science fiction writers: Figure out something that would be POSSIBLE, then work from there.

bj229r · « **Reply #68 on:** August 26, 2006, 01:06:22 PM »

frikkin aliens, they prolly won't learn English either:mad:

vorticon · « **Reply #69 on:** August 26, 2006, 01:08:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
Just for giggles, there's a way to have intelligent life without a large creature.

For example, you have single cell critters where the cell contained the equivalent to a neuron plus the basic mechanisms needed for cell life. Whenever these single cell organisms cluster together, some chemical peculiarity to their environment allows the neurons to transmit from cell to cell. Perhaps at some point, these start functioning as some sort of hive mind or massively distributed intelligence.

The more of these guys that live in a place, the smarter they are. They do all their manipulation of their environment with cilia.

This is a common excercise for science fiction writers: Figure out something that would be POSSIBLE, then work from there.

just for giggles,

it might have the potential for intelligence, but unless something in its enviroment provoked it (lets say some badass 3 cell creatures eating them) it wouldnt fulfill that potential.

lukster · « **Reply #70 on:** August 26, 2006, 01:22:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
Just for giggles, there's a way to have intelligent life without a large creature.

For example, you have single cell critters where the cell contained the equivalent to a neuron plus the basic mechanisms needed for cell life. Whenever these single cell organisms cluster together, some chemical peculiarity to their environment allows the neurons to transmit from cell to cell. Perhaps at some point, these start functioning as some sort of hive mind or massively distributed intelligence.

The more of these guys that live in a place, the smarter they are. They do all their manipulation of their environment with cilia.

This is a common excercise for science fiction writers: Figure out something that would be POSSIBLE, then work from there.

I think the intardnet disproves that theory.

Meatwad · « **Reply #71 on:** August 26, 2006, 03:02:04 PM »

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Originally posted by bj229r
frikkin aliens, they prolly won't learn English either:mad:

So they will be illegal alien aliens?

Neubob · « **Reply #72 on:** August 26, 2006, 08:57:15 PM »

I think it was Arthur C. Clarke said it best:

The answer to the question of is there other intelligent life in the universe, whether it is yes or no, is frightening.

lukster · « **Reply #73 on:** August 26, 2006, 10:03:21 PM »

What exactly do we mean when we refer to the "universe" anyhow? Do we believe that is all space/matter/energy within our "realm" of existence? By realm I mean do we believe that there is a specific reality that contains our universe and only that universe. Kinda unimaginative to believe we have an even semi complete grasp on our own reality. imo.

Booz · « **Reply #74 on:** August 26, 2006, 10:33:07 PM »

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Originally posted by Leslie
I saw something weird one time out walking the dog in a cornfield. Suburban area outside Montgomery back in 75 - 76. First it looked like someone dropping a match from about 30 feet away amongst the cornstalks. Then about 5 minutes later there was a bright star looking object over the field. It was close enough to where I was scared and hit the deck...even held the dog down. It approached and I shined a flashlight at it and yelled and it stopped and rapidly moved away and then went up into the night sky and into space. Watched it for 20 minutes and it turned red and then looked like any other star.

What do you suppose that was?

Les

I dunno, but do you think you could get it to walk my dog too?