Author Topic: Friday, Sep 8th @ 11pm ET (Read 2143 times)

Simaril · « **Reply #30 on:** September 11, 2006, 03:51:08 PM »

Didnt mean to get my undergarments in a knot, either.

I was admittedly annoyed that the best pilots in the arena took the best planes, and then piled on extra numbers to swarm each target as it came in. I could have hung around and kept trying; sounds lilke the fights got better later.

storch · « **Reply #31 on:** September 11, 2006, 04:54:52 PM »

simaril, I was in there for less than an hour and in a Ki61, how does that equate to "in the best plane"? as far as the "clubby" statement the only club I used was on the ackllieds, it worked handsomely too.

storch · « **Reply #32 on:** September 11, 2006, 05:53:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Grits
I think you know who he was talking about.

are you looking for a fight again sir? because if you are I'm for you. you sure are a strange bird. on the one hand you attempt to be friendly to me. then out of nowhere you post something like that statement which I assume was directed at me personally or if not then at JG54. what would be the reason for that comment? are you in need of further medication, those are strange mood swings.

E25280 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 11, 2006, 07:21:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
It's a tiny MA, nothing more. The casual AvA'ers have all the annoying tendencies of the MA'er, including ganging, vulching, etc. The AvA regulars are often excellent pilots, but they tend to be "clubby" -- more interested in their group than anything or anyone else. The 332nd arent in the club, so it was us against them....and for some reason the regulars took the better planeset instead of taking a handicap for the new guys.

You must have been on at a different time than I was, because the numbers were even the whole time I was on. Generally if you call for someone to even sides in the AvA, someone switches. Even the "clubby" ones will do so as more often than not I see at least on on the opposite side.

As for "ganging", I wasn't there, but what may have started as a 3 v 3 may have been down to a 3 v 1 by the time you got there. Nothing new in that. If it was a squad night / squad fight, wouldn't you expect the squad to stay together? I imagine the 332nd would normally stick together -- if they didn't the other night, shame on them for letting themselves get separated and picked off one by one.

Your final comment about the plane set -- I have often seen people unfamiliar with the planes come in and go for the Spit. The automatic assumption of most is that the Spit is automatically the Uber plane. Given the "perk the Spit XVI" whines in the general BBs, who could assume anything less? Then there is genuine shock when the earlier Spits don't quite do the same UFO stuff the XVI does, or when an MA hanger queen turns out to be quite formidable. So I wouldn't assume that the regulars went in and all took Axis because their planes are so "uber" and thus "forced" anyone who came in to take the Spit. See point 1 about what I believe would have happened if they had all gone Axis instead.

Bottom line, your perceptions are yours, but I invite you to give the arena more than a couple cursory glances over the course of years. The "bad" things you experienced to me are exceptions rather than the rule.

Except for Storch. He's just mean.

Grits · « **Reply #34 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:04:17 PM »

Its pretty simple Storch. When you say something funny, like the Lou Reed comment, I laugh and give you credit for it. When you say something that is true, I agree with it. When you say something rude, I call you on it. When you say something false, I disagree with it and say why I think it is false.

storch · « **Reply #35 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:15:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Grits
I think you know who he was talking about.

ok then using your criteria, in which one of those four categories does this offensive gem fit into?

Simaril · « **Reply #36 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:38:37 PM »

I looked at the set as 2x TnB, 2x BnZ. The Energy pair of P-40 and Ki-61 shows that the Ki has a speed advantage of 15-20mph, pretty significant. It also has a significantly tighter turn radius than the Warhawk, better gun lethality, and essentially equal firing time. There's nothing at all that the P40 does better than the Ki-61.

Also true of the Spit V vs the A6M5. The zeke has an enormously tighter turn radius than any other plane in the set, its low alt speed equals the Spit V after WEP runs out. The SPit can try to outclimb the zeke, but the zero's low speed handling would let it nose up for a shot before the SPit could get out of range.

The zeke is also (embarassingly) faster than the P40.

So, Storch, yeah I think the Ki (used as an energy plane) would be the best plane in the set because it could control engagement/ disengagement at will. The only problem for the allies is that the 2nd best Axis plane could outrun and outturn them both....

E25280: The numebrs I was talking about were at the point of contact, not in the arena. And what I saw was not the aftermath of a 3v3. It was single allied planes coming in towards the axis base, and getting attacked by 2-3 guys at once -- instead of the extra guys going on to engage the next con. It was ganging pure and simple. When I got hit by the western Ki's, it was 2 guys with big energy advantage going after me, when there were other cons not far off. Those two were racing for the kill, not trying to have a good fight.

In other words, MA behavior. Not a problem, unless you really want to offer a different experience.

As far as "shame on us" for not sticking together, well, I anticipated a good old fashioned furball, not squad ops. Is the standard REALLY to have the group hit target together, like an MA mission? Well, if thats so, then tell me again how the AvA is supposed to be different from a little MA?

I am not a newbie or an idiot, and I know the limits of the Spit V...which I like as a perk farmer in the MA environment. I've never asked for the XVI - or any other plane -- to get perked. I didnt go for the SPit as an Uber plane, I chose it because I saw zekes and didnt want to do a pure BnZ attack against them. The alternative -- the P40 -- would have had a much harder time than the Spit co-E.

When I got there my squaddies were already up in Allied planes. I have no idea how the selection was made, but Daddog specifically asked us to stay on the same team. When I got frustrated, I didnt make a major whine, I didnt even say anything to my squaddies... I just left.

Most AvA regulars are really good pilots. The Mongrels have some good sticks, but a lot of us are just guys having fun. It seems to me that when the announced guests were getting reamed, it would have been good manners to lighten up, or offer a side switch. Instead, I saw 4 axis planes chasing Sondog on the deck, and 3 more after another guy.

Lastly, my times in the AvA were not a couple hours once or twice. I really tried to get interested, to make it work, because I'd heard that it was a great place to get good fights. Well, the last time I tried I found these junior squads starting up, with lots of new guys who found they could stay alive in the AvA better than the MA. COurse, they did this through incessant ganging running and vulching. The regulars said, come thursday nights, thats when you 'll get the highest numbers and less of the other stuff. I did that for a while, and had some fun -- but lots of other times I'd get repeatedly hammered from disadvantage. Around the time Filth ran his channel bombing missions, I came in and found that I was outnumbered, out-alted, and then even ganged on climbout near base. Totally zero fun, and the attackers had all the "get the kill" focus in the MA. After a couple honest to goodness vulches from vets who should have known better, I figured that at least in the MA I can CHOOSE to go elsewhere if things arent even. In the CT, theres only one place to find a fight.

I didnt have fun Friday, but some guys clearly did. (After I left...I wonder if that has a deeper meaning....) If the AvA experience has improved from the time of the name change, I'll give it a try again.

When do most of the regulars go now?

Grits · « **Reply #37 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:45:24 PM »

Eagler thought that he was the target, I suggested it was not him. Out of curiosity, how is that offensive? Is it not a true statement?

Simaril · « **Reply #38 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:57:54 PM »

Again, sorry for the text wall. Didnt mean to go off on a rampage, and not trying to stir up trouble. I got really frustrated Friday, and then got annoyed when whichever Dog was HO'ing got the "we look down on you" treatment here.

I respect you guys -- you're good at fighting, and I know you like the arena.

storch · « **Reply #39 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:08:54 PM »

it is clear that you meant it as a dig at either myself or at JG54 as you usually do. all that without knowing the particulars of the event simaril was describing or whether he and I were even on at the same time. the subject statement is proforma behavior for you so it comes as no surprise to me. but your intent as always is to be offensive so just buck up and be offensive and stop skirting and dodging, step up to plate and swing son, swing.

storch · « **Reply #40 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:18:33 PM »

well sil take this opportunity and tell me how you would want me to play.

I mean I'm the plane with the worst performance on the axis side, I seldom go above 5k and I look for the biggest flock of red I can find, doing so alone.

JG54 no longer flies as a squad, we don't do squad ops. we basically go out lone wolf and hunt, occassionally clearing each other's sixes. we are chatting on vox about anything and everything under the sun, sometimes about our tactical situation but just as often as not about RL stuff with a "hey wildesau check the spitttard" comment if the need be.

there seems to be a misconception about how we play. let me offer this insight, some of our members are so good that you think you have four guys on you hitting you from all points of the compass when in reality it's just N7.

E25280 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:31:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
Again, sorry for the text wall. Didn't mean to go off on a rampage, and not trying to stir up trouble. I got really frustrated Friday, and then got annoyed when whichever Dog was HO'ing got the "we look down on you" treatment here.

It's no problem, sir. Your frustration is obvious. Nor am I trying to stir up trouble. I know you are not a noob, nor an idiot. To be honest, I wasn't paying attention to who leveled the complaint, just the complaint itself, which seemed to me to be unfounded in my experience.* Unfortunately I have had less and less time in the game let alone the AvA lately, so if you have been flying it a while this go-round, sorry I haven't seen you. If I saw you in the AvA before, then my memory fails me -- then again, I can't remember what I had for dinner (did I have dinner?

). So I apologize if it seemed I was trying to stir you up - wasn't meant that way.

*not a guarantee -- your experience may vary.

Grits · « **Reply #42 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:36:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
it is clear that you meant it as a dig at either myself or at JG54 as you usually do. all that without knowing the particulars of the event simaril was describing or whether he and I were even on at the same time. the subject statement is proforma behavior for you so it comes as no surprise to me. but your intent as always is to be offensive so just buck up and be offensive and stop skirting and dodging, step up to plate and swing son, swing.

No thanks, if you dont mind I will just sit back and watch you PNG yourself again.

storch · « **Reply #43 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:44:44 PM »

there you go again being offensive yet timid. be bold boy, bold. it's so ... truman capotish.

Nifty · « **Reply #44 on:** September 11, 2006, 10:39:03 PM »

man, I wish I filmed or took a screen shot. Maybe then you'd believe Sim when he said there were, at times, 4 or more chasing one Mongrel. I've got nothing against that, if I get myself into a 1 v 4 (or 2 v 7-8, as Kuhn can attest to if he remembers that particular sortie, and I did bag one of the 7-8 before I got creamed), then it's my own fault. I don't expect 2 or 3 of those 4 guys behind me to peel off and allow me to fight 1 v 1 or 1 v 2. Really, why should they disengage? The longer that 1 guy stays up, the more time his buddies have to come and even the odds out.