Electorial College explained....

[Gunthr]

You can take that one to the bank Dowding, we approve, and I'm pretty sure I speak for the others when I say that we are against boys smoking the pink panatella under the age of 18.   geez.

banana, sorry for the way I expressed my view of your position. It struck me that you may not have known how the Electoral College came to be.

I guess we disagree, but I still am not sure that you understand what I mean.

For instance, you said:
   

I don't see how, in this day and age of advanced communications, that even if all the presidential candidates ignored me and my state, that I would not know what their stands are on each issue. There's TV, the newspaper, the internet, the radio. I've been voting since 1984 and not once have I not known the issues, even though I've never been to a live presidential pep rally.

The question is not whether you know the candidate's stands on issues.

The questions that you need to be concerned about are, when Minnesota gets 2.5 feet of snow in one day, how quick will the president send federal dollars to help out the snow plows?

Or, if Minnesota's highways and bridges are rotting from the salt, how many federal dollars will come your way?


Human beings have always formed groups to get what they need. People in the large population centers form very large groups, and their chorus of voices is very loud.

Who do you think is going to get taken care of first, without an Electoral College?

These are only my thoughts and intuition. I've been ignorant on this topic up until this current election mess. So I'm interested in other ideas on this. It is certainly going to be a hot issue when the smoke (and mirrors) of this election clears...


 <S> banana

    Gunthr
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[This message has been edited by Gunthr (edited 11-13-2000).]

[Cabby]

I think these Statistics are more important than the colors of that map:


Total Number of Counties Won:

Bush:  2,434
Gore:  677

Population(1999)Of Counties Won:

Bush:  143 Million
Gore:  127 Million

Per Cent Growth Of Counties Won:

Bush:  14%
Gore:  5%

The arm-pits(Big Cities) of the USA are responsible for Gore even having a chance (albeit an illegal one) in winning this election.  

And the growth statistic is very revealing:  Americans are fleeing the Big Cities in droves.  Why?  Because they perceive that the Cities are decadent, crime-ridden, dangerous rat-holes, and want a better place to raise a family with values that reflect their own.

The Electoral College gives ALL Americans in ALL the States a voice in their government.  Not just the welfare recipients, white-wine sipping ultra-rich Liberals(these folks have 2nd and 3rd homes in the "country" and never mix with the "lower-classes")and other groups who inhabit the Big Cities, where(surprise) the "Media" also happens to be based.  

Cabby




[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 11-13-2000).]

[Cobra]

 

Originally posted by Gunthr:

The questions that you need to be concerned about are, when Minnesota gets 2.5 feet of snow in one day, how quick will the president send federal dollars to help out the snow plows?

  <S> banana

    Gunthr
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[This message has been edited by Gunthr (edited 11-13-2000).]

Gunthr,
If its Gore, he won't send any dollars, but he will claim to have visited that area himself with the head of the relief agency (when in reality he did not, but its not lying, its just "exaggerating")

Cobra

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by miko2d:

LJK Raubvogel:
 If you do not like "winner take all" approach, make it different in Hawaii. It is none of your business how we assign our electors in NY!
 You can suggest abandoning the electoral college altogether in the federal presidential election, but as long as you are a resident of of Hawaii, you cannot demand to change the state laws in 49 other states.

 For you information, some states have different scheme of allocating their electors.

miko

Damn dude, put the gun down lmao. I was just suggesting a possible alternative. Personally I don't think that large population centers should be able to represent an entire state. Btw, I am not a resident of Hawaii, I vote absentee for Pennsylvania. And I know that although the votes of Filthydelphia and Pittsburgh decide the state, they do not represent the views of the entire state.



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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[straffo]

 

• Pro-Life
• in favor of the death penalty

[/b]

GOD !
It's something my little brain cannot understand ...

[This message has been edited by straffo (edited 11-14-2000).]

[Wanker]

Straffo,

It may sound like a contradiction, but I'm all for cleaning out our death-row cells and saving the tax payers a lot of money. I know it currently costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them incarcerated, but my plan would reduce the costs dramatically: One death-row inmate, one bullet.

Now, since I'm also Pro-life, let me explain...

I don't believe abortion should be used as birth control. Abortion should only be used(IMHO) in the case of rape, or the mother's life is in jeopardy.

How do I explain the seeming contradiction? Simple. You kill someone, you die. I'm usually a bleeding-heart kind of liberal, but when it comes to murderers....let'em fry!

No problem, Gunthr, mate. We simply disagree, and I'm happy to continue to debate. I've given up on Cabby, though. No use in debating a brick wall.

Dnil, ya I know. But some of our states are so frigging out there, that maybe we should[/] have let them cecede in 1861. To some Southerners, the Civil War never ended. Whereas up here in the north country, you never, ever hear discussion about it anymore.

And speaking of state representation...isn't that what we have senators and representatives for? Have y'all forgot that we have three branches of the Federal Government?

[straffo]

It has better sense now  
But I cannot agree with you (see Voltaire citation)

I'm against aborption but I'm against limiting the freedom of others (that's not my body) and I know the case of a friend of mine who get no choice other than aborption (for medical reason) it was a decision hard to do ...
And yes I agree aborption is not proper the way to do birth control but has I understand the discution it's often a 0/1 choice : pro or against.
We all know that life is neither White nor Black it's something in the middle sometime more White sometime more Black ...

About death penalty, in France we have stopped using this ultimate act in the 70s (even if it was not as often used as in Texas for exemple) ,I've heard of a men who as spend 22 year in jail in QHS (High Security Prison) for 2 murder he didn't commit he could have been killed by the society  for nothing  .

Frankly if for 1000 guy in jail for murder in prison there is ONE innocent I won't take the risk to kill any of them.

That's what I thing ...

[Cabby]

Quote:

"No use in debating a brick wall."

Thanks, banana.  I rather like that description  

Cabby

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:
Damn dude, put the gun down lmao. I was just suggesting a possible alternative.

LJK Raubvogel:
 
 I like your solution myself very much - I am a republican and have no chance to affect the electors from NY - they all end up voting for the democrat candidate.
 I would support any federal initiative to do away with the electoral college. I would support any initiative to change the election process in NY to split the electoral votes.
 But I would be wrong to demang a change in voting procedure in any other state or country.
 It is of course your right to comment or laugh at the procedure anywhere, just be carefull with your wording.  

 straffo
 Here is an explanation foy your little brain.
 "Pro-life" is not a policy description, it is a label.
 Ford Mustang is a car, not a horse, Shevy Corvette is another car, not a ship.

 The movement would be better called "Anti-Abortion". Some of it's members condone and accomplish murders of people.

 The death-penalty proponents's goal is not to just kill people but to prevent murders of innocents. They may be called "Pro-Life" as well.

 If you care to discuss virtues of various movements, you should first learn some more about them than just their slogans or nick-names...
 
miko

[straffo]

 

If you care to discuss virtues of various movements, you should first learn some more about them than just their slogans or nick-names...

I try to understand from what I read, not the suposed sense of a label  !
That's why I've asked him to explain me.

Btw don't forget that some people like me try to understand you american people and need to write in a language wich is not their native one .

En l'occurence nous pourrions argumenter de façon peut être plus agréable si nous pouvions nous exprimer tout les deux en Français.Mais ce babillard ayant une audience internationale je suis limité à une langue que je ne maitrise pas  

Understood ? hehe  

At 1st you need to know that the idea you get through my message is perhaps not clear because I think first in French and write in Anglais/English (and it can be completly distorted by an less than skilled French  writer like me) but if you want to learn French I will gadly help you  .

[Dowding]

WTG Straffo - great response!!  

Could you teach me some more French? I learnt some at school, but that was a few years ago now.  

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-14-2000).]

[straffo]

No problem Dowding  
But you already now that's french is not an easy language  
Feel free to contact me by BBS/Mail/online or if you go in vaction in Normandie  

[Jammer]

 

Originally posted by miko2d:
The death-penalty proponents's goal is not to just kill people but to prevent murders of innocents. They may be called "Pro-Life" as well.

miko

I've yet to see any indication, statistical or other, that the death penalty is actually working as a way to reduce homicide rates. To be absolutely sure to save innocent lives you have to enforce this penalty preemptive, ie execute the person before he actually kill anyone.

No to me death penalty seem more of a "revenge" enforced by the state upon it's citizens, when the state actually should care for the lives of it's citizens instead of taking it.

I can also be seen as fixing leaks with chewing gum and band-aids instead of constructing a proper hull to begin with.

And also there is a whole wide range of greys, not just black and white, as someone posted before me.

As for the pro-life or anti-abortion issue, I belive it's only extremists and fanatics who belive the should be NO ABORTION RIGHTS at all, while most will agree it should be used mindlessly or like contraceptive (sp?) either. But it think were few women (or men) who go through an abortion do so light heartedly, or merely shrugging it off. On the contrary it often comes out of misery and suffering and is a very traumatic experience.

Oh, btw I'm all "Pro-Life" as well. You can interprete that in so many ways, depending on your ideology. I'm also pro-death, ie the right to decide when to end your own life in case of deciese (sp?) or old age, when you no longer can live a worthy life.

My .0002 kronor (the swedish monetary unit)  

Cheers,

[Fatty]

Heh, I'm not real big on this debate, but I have to reply to this one...

 

I've yet to see any indication, statistical or other, that the death penalty is actually working as a way to reduce homicide rates.

Studies indicate, though at this point it is too early to tell definately, that no dead person has yet been found to commit murder.

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Studies indicate, though at this point it is too early to tell definately, that no dead
                   person has yet been found to commit murder.

Roflmao  

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps