Author Topic: Secession (Read 989 times)

easymo · « **on:** November 13, 2000, 07:31:00 PM »

Is it time for Texans to consider withdrawal from the union. Events in Florida have already rendered the Constitution of the United States questionable as the true law of the land.

This move would not be unprecedented. Texas was a sovereign nation at the time of its admittance into the union. And a previous attempt to secede was thwarted only through force of arms, by the northern states.

Financially this would be not be difficult to accomplish. We have many natural resources. Not the least of which would be our oil reserves. We would in fact, enjoy a large upward swing in our economy, in all probability. If need be, this resource should be adequate to field a modern armed force.

Leadership is available through a number of sources. We have a former President of the United States. Plus, at the time of this writing, a potential President.

So what do ya'all think.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 11-13-2000).]

SOB · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2000, 07:52:00 PM »

I say it's time that the US Government starts a carpet-bombing campaign on Austin to thwart this little plan in it's infancy. I know a few uppity bastards in that general area who could use it

Oh, and Mason...how about you ship me your fancy new video card so's i can keep it safe until the bombing subsides!

SOB

Cabby · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2000, 07:52:00 PM »

Easymo:

Actually, i think it might be more sensible to kick New York, Florida, and California out of the Union. Nobody will fight to keep 'em, and they most certainly won't fight to stay.

Cabby

Crapgame · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2000, 10:44:00 PM »

You know it's funny, there are eerie similarities between this election and the election of 1860. Bush basically swept the old Confederacy although Florida is still being contested. Based on the demographics of Florida today though, I guess except for the northern part of the state, it no longer really resembles the South. (Just a guess, I haven't been to Florida in some 18 years.)

Bush also took the Mountain West and Great Basin states which as far as social mores and values go, tend to be far more in sync with those expressed in the South. Same goes for the Midwest, save Iowa and the upper Midwest which is traditionally more liberal anyway.

Judging from Udie's map, I'd say Cabby has a grand idea, just let New York, California and the Northeast go. On the other hand, given the rich history of Texas, I kinda like the idea of a separate Texas Republic. Given the shoddy treatment of the Military by the current administration, I doubt they have the resources to mount an attack on Texas...

On the other hand, something else to ponder. Suppose it was the same situation as 1860. So much of the Military has historically been supplied by the South. Military service doesn't carry the stigma in the South that it does in some of the more "enlightened" regions of the country. Perhaps there would be more scenes of Texan or Southern officers and men tendering their resignations in order to serve in the new forces. Wouldn't that alone gut the current military? Like I said, something to think about.

One other thing, many of us on this board have sworn an oath to defend the Constitution, if Gore continues to challenge the election results, could that be viewed as an attack on the Constitution? Just one more thing to ponder.

And before you liberals go off half-cocked and start flaming me for some kind of wild eyed militia-militant, belay that. I'm just posing some questions which open minded individuals ought to be able to discuss. I'm not advocating any extremist action. Just posing some things to toss about.

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2nd Lt. Crapgame
62nd F.S.
56th F.G. "Zemke's Wolfpack"

10Bears · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2000, 11:46:00 PM »

Easymo, my great great uncle would not approve..
Steve '10Bears' Houston

easymo · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2000, 12:11:00 AM »

Perhaps if 'ol Sam could have foreseen the current disregard for constitutional law. He might have been less eager to join the union.

Dnil · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2000, 01:55:00 AM »

where do I sign up?

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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back

Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

Eagler · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2000, 04:54:00 AM »

Please do not lump southeast Florida in with the rest of FL. We that live here do not. Palm Beach/Miami/Ft Lauderdale has for a time now been both culturally and politically 180 degrees out from the rest of our fine state. In an attempt to stay somewhat politically correct, I'll leave it at that.

Eagler

Toad · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2000, 08:16:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by cabby:
Easymo:

Actually, i think it might be more sensible to kick New York, Florida, and California out of the Union. Nobody will fight to keep 'em, and they most certainly won't fight to stay.

Cabby

Oh, they'll fight to stay alright.

How else can they get the direct, unwarranted transfer of wealth from the rest of the states through the US Income Tax?

Here are the latest breakdowns, release Oct. 16, 2000 by the IRS:

1998 Tax Statistics

% Of Taxpayers/Group's Share of Total Taxes/Income Split Point

Top 1% 34.8% above $269,496
Top 5% 53.8% above $114,729
Top 10% 65.0% above $83,220
Top 25% 82.7% above $50,607
Top 50% 95.8% above $25,491
Bottom 50% 4.2% below $25,491

The top 5% of taxpayers pay ~54%of the tax revenue. In Brother Gore's plan, these folks get NOTHING back in a tax cut. People who pay little or nothing in taxes get more back than they payed in.

Folks, that's "Free Lunch"...and that's why the "high population density, out of the top 10%" crowd voted Democratic.

You won't get rid of those states too easily.

miko2d · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2000, 08:39:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:
How else can they get the direct, unwarranted transfer of wealth from the rest of the states through the US Income Tax?

Where do you get your numbers, Toad, "Pravda" perhaps? I am not talking about the percentiles. Those have no bearing on your statement, but about the "wealth transfer".

New York pays much more per capita than it receives from the feds - about $1000 per person. New York subcidizes other states, not the other way around!
And lots of taxpayers in the top percentiles that reside in New Jersey and Connecticut are actually earning that money in New York.

What about Florida. Many people who live there are retirees who paid taxes all their life in some other state. Once they retire, they start getting some of that back. Is that what you call "free lunch"? Should people moving from one state to another lose the right to their pension just to make your statistics look better?

Easymo.
If Texas leaves the Union, who will subcidise it's oil production? Unless you all start working at Mexican wages, Texas oil is not cost-efficient to produce.

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 11-14-2000).]

Cabby · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2000, 08:50:00 AM »

Quote:

" New York subcidizes other states, not the other way around!"

Pardon me, but wasn't it New York that needed a Federal bail-out a few years back to prevent the state from declaring bankruptcy? Hmmm????

And didn't the US taxpayers(thanks to Cry-Baby Al) fund several million barrels of crude oil from the Srategic Reserve to keep the "enlightened", "environmentally-concerned", "no-nukes", "we-don't-know-squat-but-we-sure-can-whine", Northeast from freezing their tulips off this winter?

Cabby

Dnil · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2000, 09:28:00 AM »

question miko, how is Texas able to get by without a state income tax?

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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back

Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

Eagler · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2000, 09:33:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dnil:
question miko, how is Texas able to get by without a state income tax?

same way Florida does, quite well thank you

We over charge the tourist....

Eagler

Dnil · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2000, 09:49:00 AM »

hehe eag, its a loaded question, has to do with oil and a superfund.

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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back

Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

Toad · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2000, 10:04:00 AM »

Miko,

I think we're talking about different numbers here.

You do not dispute that to give the taxpayers who pay the most taxes NO REFUND and to give the taxpayers who pay the least taxes a REFUND GREATER THAN THE TAX THEY PAID is a direct, government-sponsored transfer of wealth?

OK...now look at those states, look at the major population centers in those states and determine which percentile of taxpayers the majority of that population falls into.

Free Lunch.

Miko: What about Florida. Many people who live there are retirees who paid taxes all their life in some other state. Once they retire, they start getting some of that back.

No, absolutely you do not get past taxes from "all your life" back. Refunds are on a year by year basis, Miko...you know that. They got the refunds that applied to them, in the states they lived in, when they qualified, in the year they qualified.

Should people moving from one state to another lose the right to their pension just to make your statistics look better?

Pensions? We're talking TAX REFUNDS here. Pensions, whether private from your company or business or public from your government (Social Security) have NOTHING to do with a TAX REFUND. Your pension is your pension. If it's large enough, you may have to pay tax on it. MAY. If so, then the tax you paid on it would possibly subject to a refund.

Miko, I don't understand where you're coming from or what point you are trying to make in 95% of that post.