Author Topic: Krusty's throttle project (Read 1351 times)

SkyChimp03 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2006, 11:06:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
My main mystery is going to be how I make the throttles move with a bit of friction. I want them to move freely, but to stay where I put them (that is, I don't want to place the throttle at 60% and have gravity pull it to 100%).

On those 100k ohm pots, what's the resistance like? If you set it, does it stay there? Or is it loose like a combo lock?

depends on how to mount the throttle.

Krusty · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2006, 11:11:49 AM »

Hypothetically, I was thinking (in my head) of mounting the pot sideways, and putting the lever arm directly on the end of the pot itself. That way the pot is mounted to the base and the arm directly moves the signal.

I'm just wondering if, in this setup, the arm would stay where I put it, or if I need to devise some convoluted friction lock or something on the motion of the lever arm.

Ghosth · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:50:07 AM »

Krusty

Instead of mounting the throttle lever directly on the pot. Consider useing say a rod or bolt as your mount point. This can be made sturdy enough to take a fair amount of use without causing problems. Also you can build a tensioning device into it with a fiber washer & a nut. That would let you set how much resistance you want on the arms. Then mount the pot arm to the end of the rod,

There are a lot of different kind of mechanical linkages that you can link the lever arms to the pot with.

I've dreamed for years of an affordable 4,2,1 throttle control.
(would give me the option for true independant 4 engine control, or lock 2 together for twin engine control, or lock all 4 for single engine.)

Ideally of course with RPM to match.

For a true 4 quadrant control I think Hall sensors would be the easiest.
Although it would be doable with pots as well.

Krusty · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:53:44 AM »

What are hall sensors?

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:01:17 PM »

Hall Effect Sensors. They use magnetic field to sense the position and no contact like the variable resistor in a pot. They are very expensive and if you connect them up wrong, you can fry them. I payed about $150 for the 2 in my joystick.

They are very accurate, and with no contacts, they can last for a very long time. In my opinion, they are overkill in a throttle. Not to say I might not get one for my throttle

They also have no... zero mechanical resistance.

If your interested, I have a few pics here:

Gunner's Cugar Page

Gunner

Krusty · « **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2006, 09:38:33 AM »

Hrm... interesting, but since the idea is budget and functionality, I think I'll leave those for a later time and place.

Krusty · « **Reply #21 on:** October 15, 2006, 12:24:46 PM »

Okay as I mentioned I've got these non-PRO, non-USB pedals from CH. I've opened them up and there's 1 pot in each pedal. However I'm guessing it's all supposed to be one axis. I've tried tracing the wires, but they stop at the swith that toggles between "plane" and "car".

What does this switch do to the circuit?? I don't have a voltmeter with me or I'd test 'em to find out.

The plan is to practice by getting these pedals to work as a stand-alone rather than a serial addition to a joystick. There's 3 wires in 1 pedal pot, and 2 wires in another, and all of them disappear into the switch. However, 4 different wires come out and go into the cord to the gameport.

If I wanted to clip the wires, and skip the switch, how do you use 2 pots on 1 line? You connect the +5 to one, the signal from that to the +5 (in) on the next, and the signal on that back out to the gameport, right?

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #22 on:** October 15, 2006, 03:20:14 PM »

Krusty,

I have not looked into how they are wired, but I do have the non-pro, gameport (non-usb) CH pedals. There are two pots in these.

In "plane" mode, they act as one axis. Holding down one pedal makes that axis move to full deflection in that direction, but holding down both pedals will center the axis. So they cancel each other out in a way.

In "car mode, they act like two axis. One for gas one for brake.

If your going to use these for a dual throttle, you would want to put them in "car" mode. You could leave the switch in place, but mount it inside the case. Or if you remove the switch, just hard wire it as if it were switched in car mode.

I am not sure how you plan to input this to the computer. Are you going to use the gameport? If you want to use USB, you may be best to use an old USB stick, or you would need a gameport to USB adapter. I found some at Radio Shack a few months back. They were not too expensive, I think around $10.

Gunner

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #23 on:** October 15, 2006, 03:27:23 PM »

Krusty,

Check this out!

http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/howto/throt.htm

There may be some good info in here even if you don't raid some kids toybox

Gunner

Krusty · « **Reply #24 on:** October 15, 2006, 09:40:53 PM »

Gunner, for now I'm just practicing by getting these working as rudder pedals. I want them as 1 axis only.

That's a pretty cool write-up. I'm thinking of something similar (with parts available). As a warm-up for practicing my control-building skills, I wanted to work on the pedals and get them working. Practice, if you will.

That site gets bookmarked with the rest!

Spatula · « **Reply #25 on:** October 15, 2006, 10:20:52 PM »

Krusty i have the same pedals, and i use a little rockfire usb/gameport converter. I connect my CH non-pro analog peds to that (NO other stick is on the y connector plug). Set the converter to mode 2 (i think). XP thinks my pedals are a generic 2 axis 4 button joystick with rudder pedals. I map the the rudder axis in AH to the rudders - works perfectly, no spiking, no nothing

You can pick up converters dirt cheap.

Krusty · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2006, 12:41:21 AM »

Yes, that's one idea

I could do that, but I think I'll try to wire them myself, because doing my own throttle is going to take some wiring skills, and I'm rusty. Heck I don't even own a soldering iron (but I used to use 'em a lot at one job).

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #27 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:15:00 PM »

Unless you have a joystick or Midi port, this will not work. The joystick port can take the raw analog signal from the pots, then inside your PC, covert it to a digital signal.

USB transfers information digitaly. This means you need an analog to digital converter to use the USB port. The joystick to USB converters do this for you. You will not be able to wire it yourself unless you plan to do some fancy electronics building.

Radio Shack sells these for about 8 bucks. As Spatula was saying, it has several modes for the basic joysticks. This should work well with the CH rudders.

Gunner

Krusty · « **Reply #28 on:** October 16, 2006, 10:04:00 PM »

I actually have an analog stick now, and a gameport back panel for my motherboard as well as on my SB Audigy, so I've got 2.

Krusty · « **Reply #29 on:** November 15, 2006, 11:54:04 PM »

I'm having a problem or three with these CH analog pedals. I'm only interested in the rudder pedal option, not the "car" pedal option (this splits each foot into its own axis). I've got 2 pots:

Okay, the switch is what's screwing me up. I've got wires that I can't track, here. I have only 4 wires that go out to the actual game port, but because there's the car/plane switch, CH muddled things up for me. From the gameport I have red, blue, yellow, and pink. Here's what I've got figured out.

When on "Plane":

The red and the blue wires bypass the switch, run straight in from the gameport, and to the respective pots. Red comes from pin 11 ("Joystick 2 X axis") to the middle prong on the left pot. Blue runs from pin 1 ("+5V") and into the middle prong of the right pot. The outside brown wire on the left pot becomes the black wire going into the right pot.

When on "Car":

Blue and brown share the same current. Red still goes to pin 11, but white goes to pin13 ("Joystick 2 Y axis") thus giving 2 outputs, X and Y.

Now, on "Plane" mode, I want to set these pedals up to run as-is, without a joystick running through them. What is the bare minimum required for just a 2-axis joystick (I'll be ignoring the second axis)?

I've got +5V and "Joystick 2 X axis". Do I need to ground it, or is that optional? Most of the websites that talk about the gameport pins talk about adding as many axes as possible and using all buttons, and doing 2 2-axis joysticks. I don't know what the "minimum requirements" will be, if I just want the 1 axis.