Author Topic: Why I care about religion  (Read 8425 times)

Offline Tachus

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #360 on: August 20, 2007, 04:44:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
Well, we can only do what we as humans are capable of doing when it comes to "knowing" anything.  We form a set of principles or standards of evaluation to determine, something that is the case, and/or something that actually exists.  The outcomes of these evaluations must be in agreement with fact or reality.  "Knowing" still poses many problems between the believers and non-believers, which is the case in most "religions".  Hence the need for a system of standards in which to base knowledge that is, as best as humans can do, considered to be "fact".  Given the history of mankind, it is and always will be unwise to confuse fact with faith or, even in the slightest, to give faith equal weight when building a database of knowledge for the posterity of mankind.


And of course, there in lies the problem. Who decides, what is the proper evaluation? Who decides the standards?

The issue is never "Facts" or "Evidence" it's always in the interpretation of those facts. Even if we agree, that we will not deal is matters of faith, and we agree on how we define what "matters of faith" are. Let's assume I believe a society should be based on the "Respect of Persons" perspective (which I do), but you believe the foundation of society should be based on the Utilitarian perspective (which you may or may not). The two are diametrically opposed. (Yes both operate in our society, but they always class, and decisions must be made as to which point of view will take president over the other.) It's not an issue of faith, at this point it's an issue of authority. Which of us, has the authority to enforce our views on the other? If the answer is neither, then what is to be done? We allow a majority consensus to decide what the "Flavor of the Month is" as far as the basis for our government, and what moral code we will follow.
The point being, it will always change, because there is no standard, other than "This seems right to me" So whether it's across religious lines, cultural lines, racial lines, or philosophical lines, there is never really agreement on what is "Right" And if this is the case, then why would my "This seems right to me" be discounted, because someone believed it was rooted in my belief in God? If it is acceptable to the majority, then it has been given the validity as any thing else accepted by the majority. If the defining authority is a majority consensus?; and if that is not the defining authority than what is?


Best regards,
--Tachus

Offline Viking

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #361 on: August 20, 2007, 04:52:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Pick and choose what you want to comment on... read ALL of the post before you reply.

A Liar?  A lil harsh don't you think?


No I don't. You said you made "no mention to his brother", yet you evidently did. That's lying. I have read all your posts, and you sucker punched Chairboy with a  personal comment you knew would hurt him, and you had to lie because he never did ask for prayers for his brother. What you did is not something a true Christian would do ... it is not something a civilized human would do. You may believe otherwise, but you are neither.

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #362 on: August 20, 2007, 05:02:57 PM »
Viking now yer playing a fool.

A Fool, I'll give you that, seems to fit.

I'm NOT A true Christian? NOT a Civilized human being...over a simple statement like "Prayer".

You gotta be kidding me.  

GOD Loves you both.

Get Real,

Mac

Offline Tachus

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #363 on: August 20, 2007, 05:03:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
My conclusion is that you are human, and it is a belief yes, but not faith. Faith is “firm belief in something for which there is no proof”.



But you believed without "Proof" which was my point. You had evidence, experience, and knowledge and you drew a conclusion based on those. (All the factors I have listed in my earlier posts), but not proof. You assume, (reasonably, I admit) it could be proven, but you still don't have proof. You believe based on your what you observe. (This is exactly what I do with God, by the way. I observe the evidence, and use my experiences, and my knowledge to draw a conclusion. A conclusion for which I have no "proof", but a reasonable conclusion based on what I have observed.)

As an aside on the issue of Faith. If then faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven, do you believe people have to have Faith to believe in evolution? Or in the existences of the atomic structure? Neither of these can be "Proven" (At least not today, perhaps in the future, but then I could say the same thing about God.)

So call it what you will, the issue I was addressing was the statement that, "Believing in something that you couldn't prove, was irrational" The point I was making is, it's not, we do it all the time, in many areas. It is a part of life.

Best regards,
--Tachus

Offline AWMac

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #364 on: August 20, 2007, 05:05:54 PM »
IN

Offline AWMac

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #365 on: August 20, 2007, 05:07:56 PM »
Ignore Time.

:cry

Mac

Offline SaburoS

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #366 on: August 20, 2007, 05:12:59 PM »
As an Atheist, I'm perfectly fine with the term "In God We Trust" on our money.
It's a term of faith that our money is actually worth something :)
Also, I don't pray. It doesn't make a difference (for me).
I feel discussing facts over faith and faith over facts is a waste of time if it comes down to trying to change other's core belief system. Rarely is one swayed over.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Viking

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #367 on: August 20, 2007, 05:13:27 PM »
Tachus, nothing can be 100% proved. However you can prove many things beyond a reasonable doubt. You being human, evolution, atomic structures can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind. Whether the existence of God falls in the same category is dependent on the mind doing the thinking. In my mind I have yet to see any proof or evidence of the existence of God, but perhaps I'm just blind to it. Some people claim to have experienced things that prove to them that God exists, and for them the issue is no longer about faith, but knowing God exists. The biggest mistakes we humans often do is assuming we're all the same; the fact is we all have a unique perspective of our existence.

Offline Viking

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« Reply #368 on: August 20, 2007, 05:14:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Viking now yer playing a fool.

A Fool, I'll give you that, seems to fit.

I'm NOT A true Christian? NOT a Civilized human being...over a simple statement like "Prayer".

You gotta be kidding me.  

GOD Loves you both.

Get Real,

Mac



Repent sinner! :rolleyes:

Offline AWMac

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #369 on: August 20, 2007, 05:18:56 PM »
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Originally posted by Viking
Repent sinner! :rolleyes:

Get Real. Got Faith?

Offline moot

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #370 on: August 20, 2007, 05:19:15 PM »
Tachus:  If reason is not worth trusting, then what are you doing arguing?
Are you arguing that it's in vain to argue?
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Tachus

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #371 on: August 20, 2007, 05:20:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Tachus, nothing can be 100% proved. However you can prove many things beyond a reasonable doubt. You being human, evolution, atomic structures can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind. Whether the existence of God falls in the same category is dependent on the mind doing the thinking. In my mind I have yet to see any proof or evidence of the existence of God, but perhaps I'm just blind to it. Some people claim to have experienced things that prove to them that God exists, and for them the issue is no longer about faith, but knowing God exists. The biggest mistakes we humans often do is assuming we're all the same; the fact is we all have a unique perspective of our existence.



I agree with you completely. (Well...., not completely, I don't know about evolution being proven beyond a reasonable doubt,  but close enough :) )


Best regards,
--Tactus

Offline Viking

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #372 on: August 20, 2007, 05:21:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Get Real. Got Faith?


I thought you said "ignore time"? Were you just lying again or was I mistaken in thinking that meant you would put me on ignore?

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #373 on: August 20, 2007, 05:23:34 PM »
Kinda like the  "I belive I was born an Atheist just ask GOD.

:D

If it wasn't for Atheist there'd be no Comedy in the World... well there's always the Democrats.

:aok

Mac

Offline Viking

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Why I care about religion
« Reply #374 on: August 20, 2007, 05:28:20 PM »
Well, I'm not an atheist. I don't believe in the existence of God ... at least not as described by any religion known to me. However I do not exclude the possibility that God may indeed exist. I have no evidence either way, however I find it ... improbable. I guess that makes me Agnostic if you have to put a label on it. Belief is a subconscious thought process.