Author Topic: Asking for help on our house's furnace/heating system. (Read 436 times)

fuzeman · « **on:** October 09, 2006, 03:44:05 PM »

Well, it's nearing winter in Buffalo and I [of course] have delayed fixing a problem with our heating system. Can anyone help?

I think it is a minor one but here's the story.

First, the system layout. Two story house with thermostat's downstairs and up and it uses a hot water recirculation system to pump hot water to the baseboard radiators. The furnace has a I-B-R tag on it with a single Taco Cartridge Circulator pump on it. There are two Honeywell valves controlling which zone is flowing and heating.

The first problem I noticed way back was that the uberdolts who installed it, guys that work for a local heating company which my brother recommended, connected it so the upstairs thermostat activated the heat downstairs and the downstairs controlled the upstairs. Yea, I know that was a red flag but they already left when I noticed it. I did switch a couple wires to fix that.

The problem I need help with now maybe related to that first wiring snafu but I'm not positive. The upstairs zone appears to work normally. Thermostat clicks, furnace fires up, valve opens and soon hot water is flowing through the upstairs zone.

The problem lies in the downstairs zone. When that thermostat clicks on the furnace does not fire up at all. I believe the valve opens but no activity from the furnace. If the upstairs thermostat is on we do get hot water flowing through the lower zone.

Am I correct in assuming the thermostat is basically a mercury on/off switch?
The lower thermostat is probably the same one that my Father installed when he built the house in the mid 50's but it appears to work so I don't think that is the problem. We may replace that with a newer one but I don't think that will effect the problem at all.

Could this be another problem with the uberdolts wiring?

I noticed a couple of microswitches inside the valve cover, could one of these be bad? It does seem to be actuating when the level hits it but I have not ohmed it out.
Do I need to power this puppy down so I don't electricute myself when I do mess around with it?

I may try to troubleshoot a little tonight with my sister so I don't have to keep running up and down the stairs if more information is needed.

Any ideas from you non-uberdolt heating specialists? You can reply here or via my profile and email.
Thanks for your time and effort.

Angus · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2006, 08:31:24 AM »

What happens if you disconnect upstairs?
Try to isolate the problem is what I am meaning. Since you rewired it, could the problem be there?

storch · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2006, 08:38:47 AM »

a relay isn't firing

fuzeman · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:00:59 AM »

I'll try isolating up from down.
If I find a relay gun I'll load it up and fire it. Just kidding.

I'll try some trouble shooting and get back to you. I did notice a wiring diagram on the side of the furnace so that should help.
Snow in the forecast for Thursday

storch · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:20:27 AM »

call the tech support dept. for the units mfg. you sound competent enough to have them walk you through a simple diagnostic check.

fuzeman · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2006, 11:44:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
call the tech support dept. for the units mfg. you sound competent enough to have them walk you through a simple diagnostic check.

Thanks for the compliment. I did used to work on computers in CA, banking teller terminals, ATMs and later COM [ computer output microfiche ] equipment so I do think I can do it. Its just that its something new and usually when I work on something new Mr Murphy and his laws show up.

Very good idea that I overlooked. I suppose that's from trying to understand Earthlink's tech support people after they outsourced it.

Angus · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2006, 12:12:35 PM »

does your faulty radiator work independently? is there an interconnection where the "system" can say no?
I mean, the beginning is running it aone IMHO, or?

Easyscor · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2006, 01:56:04 PM »

Your thermostats should connect directly to the furnace. No water should circulate in the pipes until the boiler temperature reaches around ~120 degrees IIRC, at which time the furnace control box will call for the proper water valve to open.

From your post, I would think this is a thermostat or wiring problem, check all the connections at the terminal blocks including at the furnace. Use the upstairs stat as a guide for the wiring pattern for the downstairs stat and as a last resort, after everything else fails, at the furnace swap the wires from the upstairs stat to test the furnace/pump/valve for the downstairs.

Do your testing and repair during the day or early morning in case you break something and need to run to the parts house, especially with snow coming. Be careful not to short out the transformer supplying power to the thermostats or you won’t have any heat at all. Oh, and have the number for a good repairman if all else fails, it’s cheaper than broken water pipes and hotel rooms.

GL

FiLtH · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2006, 01:57:25 PM »

WHen you turn on the downstairs t-stat can you manually pull the little metal lever easily down to the bottom on the zone valve?

What type of relay are you using? Taco SR502?

Have you tested the T-stat?

JTs · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:43:08 PM »

give utica boiler a call. they make quality taco pumps and might be able to help you. ummm their in utica just a short drive down the beautiful thruway.

heres a link

http://www.uticaboilers.com/

fuzeman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2006, 05:12:20 PM »

Angus, Easyscor and FiLtH, I'll get back to you after some investigation.

Buffalo to Utica, ~180miles. In my book that's not a short drive. Although the foliage would probably look nice.

Now for the big question, squad night tonight. Fly or fix? I certainly don't have my priorities in order.

fuzeman · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2006, 07:59:05 PM »

Well, I've found the first problem.
The zone valve is a Honeywell V8043E1020 and there is a microswitch that is not closing when actuated. The ohmage varies a little so not sure if it's the connection or the switch itself. I'll try some adjustment of the switch and of course give the wires the 'pull it and see if it comes off' test.

Dad did a good install of the wiring so I only had to turn off one switch to unpower the whole thing so I don't fry me or any components.
Don't think I've worked on anything with a microswitch since the old TRW days working on ATMs.

Reading the V8043 manual booklet now. Next step is finding out how to disasemble it.

FiLtH · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2006, 01:20:32 AM »

Grab a new power head. They arent that expensive.

fuzeman · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2006, 12:55:02 PM »

Stopped by the local heating joint.

New power head is about $115 he said. So I have to spend $115 because a $2 part broke.
He also mentioned that Honeywell had a program a few years back dealing with problem switches.
Unfortunately I'm a day [year or two] late and dollar [$113] short on that deal and it isn't in effect anymore.

Before I go the replacement route I will seriously consider swapping the downstairs and upstairs power heads.

The guy also mentioned with a wink and a nod that the switches may be available in Canada but can't be sold in the US.
If they're available in Canada I'll probably do more searching on the net.
Radio Shack had no swithes that came close to matching the one in the power head.

Thanks for the time and effort .

fuzeman · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2006, 06:10:21 PM »

Swapped upstairs and downstairs power heads and then switched the thermostat connections.
That will be the temporary fix for now.

Thanks again for all your input