Question for HT about the N1K.

[SAS_KID]

B-25H had a 75mm howitzer on the nose.  VULCH! VULCH! VULCH!:noid

[hammer]

Originally posted by evenhaim
b25 was designed for parafraging or bombing with chutes, which the gme cannot support, as much as i would kill to have the 25 in the game it wouldnt be as realistic

This is not correct. The B-25 was designed as a normal medium bomber. Parafrags were developed as a solution to a problem - namely how to do low level bombing without the bomber taking damage from the bombs.

[mussie]

Just remeber not to call it a Nikki infront of Pyro.....

It gives him the chits

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Bruno
The Bf 110C4/B is rarer - Only 20 Bf 110C-4 were fitted with DB601N.

This total applies to both C-4 and C-4/B, even for the C-7 which was a "serialized" C-4/B. Only 7 out of 39 aircraft were equipped with DB601N.

 

The bible on all of this is the Petrick/Mankau book:

'Bf110/Me210/Me410'..

You would have about 27 Bf 110C-4/Bs (includes C-4s and the 7 designated as C-7s) produced.

Thanks Bruno, never realised one of our 110's was that 'unusual'.

Really does make you wonder what the thought process is for some of these decisions at HT.

So that would make -

110C4/B - 27
Ta152 - 60-70
Seafire IIc - 110

The rarest, in that order, in the game.

Makes the N1K2 look positively common.

[E25280]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Thanks Bruno, never realised one of our 110's was that 'unusual'.

Really does make you wonder what the thought process is for some of these decisions at HT.

So that would make -

110C4/B - 27
Ta152 - 60-70
Seafire IIc - 110

The rarest, in that order, in the game.

Makes the N1K2 look positively common.

You forgot about the Ostwind.  I believe only about 40 were produced.  It was more rare even than the Wirbelwind (which, granted, was only a little over 100 produced).

OK, not a plane, but still . . . very rare and modeled over a more common, somewhat equivalent vehicle (both on PzkwIV chassis).

[evenhaim]

ahh rgr yah i heard from a friend that this was its prupose but i can c where u r coming fromnow i am wellinformed

[Raptor]

They chose some planes over others to offer a different variety of the other online sims. Where other sims had B25s, HTC went out and made a B26 to be different. I think now that AH has replaced many of the other SIMs, HTC will start creating planes based on community needs and not just to be different from the rest.

[Krusty]

You know, volume of numbers isn't the only reason to include a plane. Pyro said he wanted to see the Me410 because "It would be cool to do all the weapons packages". Not because it had many kills, had hundreds upon hundreds of planes built, or anything. Because "it would be cool"

Sometimes you need look no further than that.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Krusty
You know, volume of numbers isn't the only reason to include a plane. Pyro said he wanted to see the Me410 because "It would be cool to do all the weapons packages". Not because it had many kills, had hundreds upon hundreds of planes built, or anything. Because "it would be cool"

Sometimes you need look no further than that.

Nice to know that one of the logical reasons for adding a plane is because it's cool, LOLOLOLOL.

Not that it fills a gap, not that is needed, but cool, hell there's hope for a Spit F.21 after all.

[MOIL]

Here ya go LTARget

"Wirbelwind and Ostwind were fitted with very similar (especially designed) open-top (Wirbelwind's turret had 9 side panels and Ostwind's had 6 side panels) turrets mounted in the place of standard turrets. Ostwind's turret was nicknamed Keksdose - cookie tin. Main difference was that Wirbelwind was armed with quadruple 20mm Flak 38 L/112.5 guns while Ostwind was armed with single 37mm Flak 43 L/89 gun (both could be used against ground targets as well). 20mm Flak proved to be less effective than 37mm Flak and was eventually replaced by it. Both were produced by Ostbau Works in Sagan, Silesia in limited numbers due to the material shortages and the fact that Ostbau Works moved to facilities of Deutsche Eisenwerke in Teplitz and Duisburg due to danger of being overrun by the Soviets. Overall from May to November of 1944, only 87(105) Wirbelwinds were made, contrary to only 44(43) Ostwinds produced from July 1944 to March of 1945. Both vehicles were issued to Flugabwehrzug (AA platoons) units of Panzer Divisions. There were never enough of them to equip frontline units, which were in the need for adequate mobile AA defense. Both proved to be very effective against low flying aircraft. The interesting fact is that prototype Ostwindwas combat tested by 1st Waffen SS Panzer Division "Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" during the Ardennes Offensive (December 16 to 22 of 1944) and returned to factory undamaged. "

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Nice to know that one of the logical reasons for adding a plane is because it's cool, LOLOLOLOL.

Not that it fills a gap, not that is needed, but cool, hell there's hope for a Spit F.21 after all.

If you think about it, there's no reason whatsoever to have a Ta152. I still love that we do!

[Charge]

"You know, volume of numbers isn't the only reason to include a plane. Pyro said he wanted to see the Me410 because "It would be cool to do all the weapons packages". Not because it had many kills, had hundreds upon hundreds of planes built, or anything. Because "it would be cool"

Sometimes you need look no further than that."

And sometimes you need to look even further than that.

The choice of modelled aircraft seems strange, but I think the choices are done to present a planeset that is most balanced of a certain era. It has to be remembered that these planesets have to be used also in scenarios where an unfair advantage would ruin the fun. (Did 110C-4/B do that in BoB with its N engine? Was it too good against Spits and Hurris?)

I have often wondered if the planesets are done for MAs or for scenarios?
Because if you introduce a new plane to counter e.g. LA7 in main arenas the plane has to be included in planeset in scenarios and without a proper counterpart it would create a serious unbalance. Of course there are historical situations where the unbalance existed and it is appropriate for scenario/snapshot e.g.  109G6 against Spit IX or FW190A5 against Spit V.

What kind of unbalance do you think ME410 would create? OR  P-39?
I think they would both be cool.

-C+

PS. Dear Santa (HT), please give Kev his Überspit so he can finally dump that strangely modelled Tiffie and start flying Spitties.

[Kev367th]

Thanks Charge, but even I realise there's a lot more needs adding before the F.21 should even be considered.

At the moment I'd settle for a free Spit XIV as they unperked the Ta152, or the old V back as a clipped LF Vc for scenarios, now there is a big hole/miss in the planeset.
Or the Seafire with the much more common Merlin 32, every scenario so far that included the Seafire would have been a Merlin 32 LIIc or an Merlin 55 Seafire LIII.

[Bruno]

What kind of unbalance do you think ME410 would create?

The 410 won't be added any time soon due to the problems with modeling the gunner position.

The P-39 is a must have for the early PAC and Ostfront theaters for the CT.

(Did 110C-4/B do that in BoB with its N engine? Was it too good against Spits and Hurris?)

Look at the entire LW plane set and you see that any BoB scenario is just some made up of mixed match of aircraft - like most AH scenarios.

The Bf 109E-4 is the only plane in the set that truly belongs in a BoB event. Even then there were large numbers of E-1s and E-3s (many brought up to E-4 standards).

The Ju-88A-4 didn't fly during BoB. The pre-dominant A-1 was slower then the A-4 as was the A-5 (A-4 airframe and A-1 engines).

There's no early Stuka.

Finally, we come to the Bf 110C-4/B which over performs the standard and more common C-4. I was CO for the First AH BoB event and my Bf 110C-4/Bs ended the event with the highest KD ratio of any other plane. I didn't fly the last 2 BoB scenarios, or even check the stats. However, if the Bf 110C-4/B were deployed properly they should have dominated.

The problem with the overall AH plane set in its current form is that from the beginning planes were introduced based on whatever HTC decided to do at the time (cool factor..?) or to fill holes or needs in the main. Little thought was given to scenarios or to anything like the CT.

Even after ToD/CT was announced and 'in development' they introduced an aircraft like the P-47N when an early C model would have been better. They re-did the Fw 190s and an A-3 or A-4 was not introduced and neither was an Fw 190A-6 (an easy conversion from the A-5 - just add 2 MG151/2cm in the wings to replace the MGFF).

Outside of a very basic 8th AF CT every other theater will struggle with stand in aircraft and made up plane match ups.

When you look at the number of rare and very limited aircraft its hard to find any method to how, why and when for their introduction.

Any new plane is better then no new planes - especially in the old main. However, with the changes it would seem that there's the possibility to get away from the wonder weapons and to start filling the holes with more useful and common aircraft. This may or may not happen - I thought the same thing with the announcement of ToD/CT. It didn't happen.

[Kev367th]

Totally agree Bruno.

As the Spits and 109/190s planes were remodelled together HT missed a great chance to finally have contempory adverseries.

Only 2 are the Spit I and 109E, rest are a mishmash of different time periods.

Surprising really because one of Pyros guidelines is that they should be useful for scenarios.
Yet we have an early 190 that if historically used wouldn't be around till 1943, way after the Spit IX introduction.

110s in BoB scenarios are a joke, even a Spit has problems getting close when they come in with alt, but they have yet to be remodelled, so you never know.