Author Topic: The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's  (Read 2355 times)

Offline FiLtH

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2006, 09:26:19 PM »
The trouble is in a war against an opponent that could fight us on equal terms, Im afraid alot of our technology would be put out of action early on, and we would have to fall back to sticks and stones. In WW1 the trench shovel was one of the most common weapons. Imagine fighting with those...beside a guy whose feelings are hurt if yelled at.

    We pride ourselves on a professional army. I dont care if the guy can use a computer.

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Offline AquaShrimp

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2006, 09:26:29 PM »
Col David Hackworth (recently deceased), while in Vietnam constructing a firebase, uncovered a dead vietnamese with an AK47 who had been buried for a few months.  In a demonstration to his troops, he kicked the bolt open with his boot, and fired an entire 30 round magazine out of the mud caked ak47.

Source: About Face -Col David Hackworth

Well, you're a veteran.  I could post all about Somalia, and how the troops had to fire round after round into the Somalis because the 5.56mm wounds weren't killing them.  But I bet you've heard this before.  And about how the M4 loses critical fragmentation velocity after 50-75 yards.

And I'm sure you know that the 5.56mm round was developed from a World War II study that showed that the side that puts out more small arms fire usually won the firefight .  But how do you lay down more fire than your opponent with a semi-automatic rifle?

Fully automatic, the M-16 might be ok if your in a conventional style firefight.  Just don't get your rifle wet or dirty, and be sure to clean it five times a day.

Offline lasersailor184

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2006, 09:35:54 PM »
We've had this exact same argument before.  This debate will get no where and will probably go in a circle 2-3 times before this thread is closed.




So let's keep talking about how big of pansies the army is.  :D
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline lasersailor184

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2006, 09:37:55 PM »
Also, BlueJ.  My friend told me that one of the recruits did die during his bootcamp.  He went through in the middle of the summer.

One double black flag day while they were at the range, this recruit passed out.  They took his temperature reading as 108 (fahr).  He pretty much cooked his brain.  All from not drinking enough water.

While he wasn't technically dead, the family pulled the plug on him within a week.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Thrawn

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2006, 10:00:22 PM »
Come on AquaShrimp, tell us how many firearms you on.  If you own an M-16 and an AK.  And any relevent military experice.

Offline DiabloTX

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2006, 10:22:09 PM »
One should know better by now about taking shrimp bait.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline lasersailor184

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2006, 10:32:11 PM »
And one should know better then to say the word "One" in place of the word "you."  It makes one sound like a sweetheartbag.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline DiabloTX

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2006, 10:42:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
And one should know better then to say the word "One" in place of the word "you."  It makes one sound like a sweetheartbag.


This is coming from plenty of personal experience I take it?
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline lasersailor184

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2006, 10:47:24 PM »
Personal peeve of mine.  Just watch next time.  When someone uses "One," the way they say it definately applies to the term sweetheartbag.  

Pay attention.  I expect a report in several days from you verifying what I said to be true.  You'll forget I said this, but after several times of someone saying it, you should notice it.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline DiabloTX

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2006, 10:54:37 PM »
One should not request things one knows aren't going to happen.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline lasersailor184

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2006, 10:57:59 PM »
Just try it.  Most people get the same look on their face when they use the word "One" as a pronoun.  If a guy did that to you in any other situation, you'd think he was a sweetheartbag and would want to punch him in the face.


Try it.  Think of it as the only favor I'll ever ask.  Listen to and watch how d-bags use the word "One."
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline AquaShrimp

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2006, 04:32:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Come on AquaShrimp, tell us how many firearms you on.  If you own an M-16 and an AK.  And any relevent military experice.


I'm educated on military history, not a soldier.  Its a bad assertion to link serving in the military or owning a ak-47/m-16 to being educated on small arms combat and philosophy.  

I'll tell you what I do have.  I have hundreds of first hand accounts, the opinions of many combat veterans, and facts and figures to back up my claims.

Offline Nilsen

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2006, 04:51:21 AM »
Isnt it true that many american soldiers prefers to use AKs in Iraq? I know that some do so because then the weapon sounds just like the guns that the insurgats use and it wont draw as much attention as the sound of an M16, but the Iraqi security forces also use the AK.

No idea witch weapon is best, but then in not biased either way. I do know that the M16 was rejected by the Norwegian army due to cold weather performance, but then many units use the C8 and a variation of the C8 may become the next assault rifle for the army when they select new rifles soon. Isnt the Diemaco C8 basicly a variation of the M16?

Offline Hornet33

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2006, 07:17:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I'm educated on military history, not a soldier.  Its a bad assertion to link serving in the military or owning a ak-47/m-16 to being educated on small arms combat and philosophy.  

I'll tell you what I do have.  I have hundreds of first hand accounts, the opinions of many combat veterans, and facts and figures to back up my claims.



What needs to be remembered here is that many of these combat vets that complain about the M-16's poor performance, and countries rejecting the rifle due to performance failures of one sort or anouther were mostly based on the older M-16 design (M-16 / M16A1). The modern M-16A2 with all the improvments made to the weapon is a very reliable peice of hardware.

Also the situation in Somalia with the rounds not killing was due to the type of rounds the soldiers were issued. They were using "slap" rounds. Those are a plastic coated titanium round designed to penetrate body armor. Firing that round against the Somlians, it tended to go right through them without causing significant damage. Had the soldiers been issued standard ball ammo, those rounds would have been more effective.

I have a very good friend that served in Somalia and he has told me several times that the rifles performed great, it was the ammo that was the problem. Of course at the time the slap rounds were new and the military higher ups thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread so that's what they were issued, oops.

Now about your statement of:

"Its a bad assertion to link serving in the military or owning a ak-47/m-16 to being educated on small arms combat and philosophy."

Who is better qualified to make a statement about this subject? Someone who has used the weapon in question in combat and owns one for their personal use, or someone who has just read about it and seen some TV shows about it?

I do consider myself something of an expert because I have used it in combat, I do own many types of weapons, I have received professional military training concerning many different weapons. I maintain all my own weapons, I have a limited amount of gunsmithing experiance under my belt and that experiance is growing. I handload my own ammo for a majority of the weapons I own. I also do allot of reading to stay up to date on the current weapons that are out there.

So.....it is MY opinion based on MY experiance and knowledge that makes ME prefer the M-16 over the AK-47.

Academic study of a subject does not make someone an expert. That requires study and real world experiance with the subject first hand. I'll always trust the guy with 10-20 years experiance over the new guy with the degree. Education is only a foundation. Experiance builds the house.
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline Mightytboy

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The Army's boot camp is now easier than the Air Force's
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2006, 07:20:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I simply cannot fathom making boot camp easier to accomidate the changes in America's youth.  It strikes in the face of all that have served and made it.  

Lower standards have never produced better quality in anything that I am aware of.


It's worked in our school systems. According to the Dems of course. :rofl