Author Topic: Info for those who still believe  (Read 1245 times)

Offline Silat

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Info for those who still believe
« on: November 16, 2006, 05:04:33 PM »
the republican mantra that we need to limit the peoples right to sue..


Report: Most malpractice cases end with no payments to patient

http://www.wkyc.com/news/health/health_article.aspx?storyid=59351

Created: 11/15/2006 5:40:41 PM
Updated:11/15/2006 5:45:06 PM
 

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- For the first time, Ohio has compiled a report on the outcome of medical malpractice claims.
The information collected by the Ohio Department of Insurance provides a benchmark for future trends on a hot-button issue between doctors and the lawyers who sue them.

The report issued yesterday shows there were more than 5,000 medical malpractice cases closed in Ohio in 2005. Sixty-five -- 1.3% -- resulted in payments of more than $1 million.

Four thousand cases -- 80% -- resulted in no payments to those claiming bad care.

The compilation covers malpractice lawsuits against doctors, dentists, optometrists and chiropractors.

© 2006
 
The Associated Press
+Silat
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2006, 05:13:37 PM »
Suing for malpractice is like playing the lottery.  Everyone wants a piece of that pie so they jump onboard.  Even if the doctor prevails they can look forward to much higher insurance rates.  Its all about the lawyers.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2006, 05:18:09 PM »
Unless you settle, the cost for defending is not much different between winning and losing. And the insurance company still pays for part of it since they at least help provide the lawyer in most cases.

What that compilation DOES NOT show is how many of the 4000 cases that did not result in a pay out by the doctor or insurance company were either lost or dismissed because they had zero merit.
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2006, 05:30:20 PM »
Yet every one of those cases resulted in financial hardship to the doctor, medical staff, or hospital due to legal fees and increased malpractice insurance, not to mention additional stress on the accused.  As if a surgeon who already works 12-14 hour shifts NEEDS more on his or her mind...

Indirect costs of course are passed right on to everyone else, as unnecessary studies are ordered, the most conservative and expensive medication schedules are prescribed, and patients are "encouraged" to leave the hospital as early as possible so if anything happens, it doesn't happen where the hospital can be blamed.  Covering your butt is just as important to hospitals as patient care nowadays.

I'd almost like to see health care go completely back to cash-for-services, with a hard-nosed waiver signed before entering the front door.  There is no right to perfect health and no right to expect perfection in a practice that by definition deals with things that are already going wrong.  Criminal negligence needs to be dealt with and compensated for, but the stats are proof enough that most malpractice cases are just people pissed off that they're sick.

Maybe instead of going to court they need to go to church and ask God why they have cancer.

True malpractice horror story - Lady asks friend radiologist to do a mammogram as a favor.  Radiologist helps lady get mammogram quickly, but finds suspicious lumps.  Radiologist recommends immediate follow-up with skilled general practicioner.  Lady thanks radiologist.  1 year later, radiologist sees lady at a party, asks about results of follow-up.  Lady says she hasn't gotten around to it.  Radiologist is horrified, again recommends immediate follow-up.  Lady again fails to go to doctor.  1 year later, lady goes in to see doctor for something, doc feels lumps and does biopsy.  Lumps are cancer, too far progressed to be easy.  2x mastectomy and chemo later, lady is alive, has no breasts, and is out for revenge.  She sues original radiologist friend for failing to catch cancer, and wins large award from sympathetic jury who feels sorry for lady with no breasts even though she blew off follow-up for 2 full years.

That's the truth about the majority of malpractice lawsuits.  The patient is mad about life not going perfectly well, and sues everyone who tried to help them.  Even if hospital saved their life, they still sue because they're still angry at the universe.  People used to go to church to deal with this, but now it's possible to wring a cash settlement out of sympathetic juries who agree that life sucks and *someone ought to PAY for this!!!!* even if there is no fault or if it was the patients fault.  Because you see, we make every excuse we can think of to excuse poor behavior from people who are in poor circumstances either through bad luck or bad choices.

And everyone's health care costs go up, doctors are avoiding critically needed specialties due to high risk of lawsuits, and quality of care drops.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2006, 05:37:41 PM »
Doctors should go on strike until the law is changed.

What quicker way to make the socialists realize how much they need the doctors then there being none of them there to work.
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2006, 06:13:15 PM »
Does it cover those that settle?
Does it cover the litigation fees the defendent paid?
Does it cover the other 49 other states?


Geesh silat, if I took a study of ONLY san fransisco would that be a reresentaion of the nation or democratic values as a whole?

This just in, Democrates HATE JROTC in high schools.

Is that a fair and accurate statement?

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2006, 06:35:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger

This just in, Democrates HATE JROTC in high schools.

Is that a fair and accurate statement?


I don't know, but it's certainly off topic. ;)
sand

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2006, 08:37:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I don't know, but it's certainly off topic. ;)


Not if you are taking a small portion of the population and applying it as a general rule.:aok

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2006, 09:11:12 PM »
hmmm


lets look at the figures here

1.3% of 5000 cases resulting in over a million dollars awarded means


$65 million dollars awarded for every 5000 cases tried.

That's lowballing it as well because it says "over a million dollars" that means there could be 10 cases resulting in $10 million dollar verdicts.

That would put our figure closer to $155 million.  Again, I think I'm lowballing here.

lets not forget about those other 935 cases that resulted in awards.  Lets say 25% of them got $100K each

That's another $23 million and change

We are now up to $178 Million

Now lets say half of those 935 cases resulted in $10K awards.  That's another $4.65 million

$182 million and change.

Lets take this a step further.  Ohio makes up 3.8% of the US population in 2005.  If this where a good general cross section of the US by my non-scientific studies (kinda like this one)

$4,705,730,625.20  yes that's billion dollars are awarded ANUALLY in mal practice suits in the US.

Now this isn't taking into account:

1.  Lawyer fees
2.  Court Fees
3.  Cases that are settled out of court


If every single one of these court cases cost each person involved $3000 dollars in lawyer fees (again low balling it)

That's $12 million more just to defend the cases that are dismissed just in ohio alone and $310,267,953.31 (yes million) nation wide.  That's just if every court case cost the parties involved $3k a piece.  

This isn't taking into account the big cases like merc and what not.  Of course the article also fails to mention any possible relation to a major recent change in ohio malpractice laws But I guess you could just say that's semantics and ask us if we still beleive huh silat.  


all calculations where made possible by:  Windows XP standard calculator, and US Census facts

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2006, 08:50:45 AM »
Now that is funny silat...

Talk about your newspeak....  80% of cases don't end in a settlement... soooo... that means that malpractice insurance is not a big problem in medical costs?

If more than half of the expense of being a doctor is medical insurance costs and... if there are more lawyers in the country than doctors and.. if every commercial on late night or daytime tv is about suing a doctor...

Who the hell do you think is paying to defend these doctors against all these baseless lawsuits?  How many multimillion dollar lawsuits do you think it takes to drive malpractice insurance into the realm of being half of medical care costs?

Sheesh... by your logic.. we could cut medical costs in half by simply telling doctors to not buy malpractice insurance... I mean... what are the chances they will get sued right?

What is funny is that if you get your socialist medicine... you will have to severly limit the amount and kinds of malpractice suits like in other socialist countries.

socialized medicine will not only give you terrible service but make it so you can't sue if anything goes wrong.


lazs

Offline lukster

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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2006, 09:11:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

socialized medicine will not only give you terrible service but make it so you can't sue if anything goes wrong.


lazs


The socialist elite know this but those looking for socialism to give them a bigger and unearned piece of the pie can't see that far ahead.

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2006, 09:24:43 AM »
So, in other words, suck it up, you can live without the limb.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Neubob

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Re: Info for those who still believe
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2006, 10:00:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
the republican mantra that we need to limit the peoples right to sue..


Report: Most malpractice cases end with no payments to patient

http://www.wkyc.com/news/health/health_article.aspx?storyid=59351

Created: 11/15/2006 5:40:41 PM
Updated:11/15/2006 5:45:06 PM
 

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- For the first time, Ohio has compiled a report on the outcome of medical malpractice claims.
The information collected by the Ohio Department of Insurance provides a benchmark for future trends on a hot-button issue between doctors and the lawyers who sue them.

The report issued yesterday shows there were more than 5,000 medical malpractice cases closed in Ohio in 2005. Sixty-five -- 1.3% -- resulted in payments of more than $1 million.

Four thousand cases -- 80% -- resulted in no payments to those claiming bad care.

The compilation covers malpractice lawsuits against doctors, dentists, optometrists and chiropractors.

© 2006
 
The Associated Press


You know, Silat, I've always had a lot of respect for you, but this has got to be one of the most thoughtless posts I've seen on this forum yet. Of all the reasons to not like republicans, their approach to medical malpratice tort should not even be on the radar.

Most cases of medical malpractice are bogus. In the absence of any negligence, a patient has a statistical chance of getting an infection. A patient goes into surgery, everything goes fine, but his wound gets infected. He sues. A doctor tells a patient that he will experience numbness in his right arm for a week post surgery, it goes on for two weeks, he sues. A pateient is told that he will not be able to lift heavy object at work after a spinal fusion, his employer demotes him, he sues. A patient agrees to an rare treatment, and, as a result, is laid up for 2 months, losing wages but suffering absoltuely no lasting harm. Sues and settles for $9million (a recent case in delaware ended like this).

The cases of sponges and scalpals being left in the wound, or the wrong leg being amputated, those are few and far between. What is common is patient greed, stupidity, and their lawyers' infinite propensity for filing baseless claims.

As a result, the doctors, your apparent enemies, have had to pay ever-increasing medmal insurance premiums, have had to close practices,  raise rates, or, at the very least, exercsie the costly and largely useless practice of 'defensive medicine'. You can bring up all the personal examples you want. I come from a family of doctors and I've heard them all. If you have legitimate negligence on the part of the doctor or hospital, you deserve compensation. The vast majority of cases do not. Period.

But don't let any of that change your reasoning. Of all the idiocy the republicans can be accused of, you picked the most valid one. Doctors don't lose enough lawsuits.

Shame on you.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2006, 10:08:34 AM by Neubob »

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2006, 10:17:58 AM »
Quote
If more than half of the expense of being a doctor is medical insurance costs and... if there are more lawyers in the country than doctors and.. if every commercial on late night or daytime tv is about suing a doctor...

Who the hell do you think is paying to defend these doctors against all these baseless lawsuits? How many multimillion dollar lawsuits do you think it takes to drive malpractice insurance into the realm of being half of medical care costs?

Sheesh... by your logic.. we could cut medical costs in half by simply telling doctors to not buy malpractice insurance... I mean... what are the chances they will get sued right?


Well, the facts are that malpractice costs amount to less than 2% of US healthcare spending according to the CBO.

Quote
What is funny is that if you get your socialist medicine... you will have to severly limit the amount and kinds of malpractice suits like in other socialist countries.

socialized medicine will not only give you terrible service but make it so you can't sue if anything goes wrong.


Where do they do that? Britain, which has a national healthcare system (cheaper than the US national healthcare system, but covers everyone), allows unlimited payouts for medical negligence. They paid something over £500 million in compensation in the 2004-05 financial year.

Offline ROC

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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2006, 10:43:18 AM »
Quote
Four thousand cases -- 80% -- resulted in no payments to those claiming bad care.


Lew, are you saying the Republicans are wrong Because these patients didn't get paid for a claim of bad care?  They wen't through the legal system and Lost, which suggests they had no basis for the claim to begin with.

Of course they have the right to sue, but don't you think the legal system and the hospitals would be better served if the JUNK wasn't cluttering up the system?

This is an indication of Bad Republican Policy?  How?  Just because someone Claims bad care does not make it so.  In a utopian society one wouldn't expect someone to lie or mislead, but in the real world of morons dropping hot coffee on their laps and winning lawsuits, people Do lie and manipulate.  Common sense is not something that comes easily to alot of people, at some point we need to step back and just tell them to knock off the stupid stuff.

In a "perfect" society where we all had the right to do anything, I could sue you simply because trying to figure out what you meant in this post gave me a headache, thus causing mental anguish, and forced me to miss an hour of work trying to clear my head.  By my Claim I should win easily because I made the claim, shouldn't I?  Wouldn't that be the Fair thing to do?

I'm really stuck on how tying this to the evil Republicans mantra about limiting lawsuits.  The evil republicans are trying to prevent the Stupid lawsuits I just described, and Right Now have the Right to pursue.

:D
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.