New deer rifle…

[Mace2004]

Originally posted by G0ALY

I put a “Hawken” style rifle in the picture to give you an idea of this things size.

What do you think, just a little too Freudian?

Even Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

[Golfer]

Mav,

I use round balls wrapped in wadding and find them to be very much suitable.  My father uses a .54 caliber hawken and swears by 'powerband' bullets.  Bullet shape with a plastic skirt on the rear of the round which expends and grabs into the rifling.

I've heard/seen/read mixed reviews and questionable performance with them out of some guns but they have more than proven themselves out of my father's hawken.  At 100yds he's roughly 2" high.  200yds 2" low and 300 yards something like 8" low.

We're talking 2" groups at the long ranges and I was honestly impressed.

Might be worth picking up a flat of them (20 bullets) to try them through your rifle.

No wadding, grease or other slicky/sticky/smelly stuff on your hands.

[G0ALY]

The Minnie balls arrived today. I will be lubing them with “Bore Butter”.  It does have a nice rifled barrel, so these should perform well… I’ll let you know. ”  
 


I am seriously looking into purchasing a mold for these bullets and casting them myself.

Hopefully I will have a chance to get this rifle out and shooting this weekend, because deer season starts on Monday.  In Ohio you are limited to shotgun (slug only) or muzzleloaders, there is no high-power rifle season. Also due to the huge increase in the deer population they are encouraging hunters to harvest does.

Either way, I’m looking forward to spending some time in the woods

[daimian]

"I am seriously looking into purchasing a mold for these bullets and casting them myself."

i dont recomend it. my brother had good equipment and didnt have any luck with casting. much easier to buy good bullets. not to mention the time involved and the lead exposure.

[Golfer]

agreed.  stick with molding jigheads not bullets.

[B@tfinkV]

wonderfull looking weapon goaly, you must be thrilled to pieces with it, i bet its feel good in your hands compared to an M4 rifle with super heat lazer tracking tank destroying foam deployment options.

also excelnt posts eagl, S!

first time i caught a trout I was hunting it up and down a mile stretch of shallow stream for 3 hours with my friend luke, we were 7 years old and we used bamboo canes to shatter its spine by a hit to the dorsal fin. the hunt consisted of crepping through crystal clear 2 foot deep water and getting within striking distance of our prey only to have him dart off up or downstream at 250mph just before we could reach him. in the end we outsmarted the fish (woowooo! gotta start small:D ) by creeping up near him and throwing stones to disturb the surface 10yrds the other side of him, silly bugger swam right into my leg  and i finaly got enough of a target to disable him. flipped him onto the bank and had to crush his skull with a heavy log. we took him home is a wet jersey and ate him. that night at bed time i remember almost crying about the life i had taken, and my mother consoling me. i think she was just happy to have beautifully fresh brown trout for supper. the best part looking back now is that we were dressed in camo dpms with face paint, and it was in the 100 acre estate owned by Sir Francis Dashwood, where the game keeper used to shoot tresspasers with a 4-10 shotgun for sport. the fearless innocence of childhood and the thrill of hutning killing and eating an animal in an untouched paradise of lakes and elaborate statues and buildings, with the extra thrill of it being highly dangerous with human enemys to contend with...and all this not more than 20 miles from the edges of the decayed sprall of London....i truly led a privelidged childhood, and we never had enough money to simply buy privelidges, they were there just for the takin made by the planet for me.

[Maverick]

Goally,

Before you start casting your own check on the cost of good PLAIN lead. You can sometimes get it from plumbing supply houses. If you cast for black powder you'll need pure or plain lead and not an alloy. That means no scrap lead like you could use for other cartidges.

This might make the cost of "rolling your own" a bit higher than buying them pre cast. Another consideration would be that hollow cavity slugs like that can be hard to cast.

The equipment is simple, a coleman stove, melting pot, dipping ladle and the mold. It WILL take time to get good slugs  but if you get the temp right and have a good roll of luck you can get a bunch cast in an afternoon. Casrt in an area of GOOD ventilation, preferably with a breeze blowing across you and towards the melting pot so you are breathing fresh air all the time.

I did cast my own REAL bullets but didn't bother with the hollow points or round ball. Round ball was cheap to buy. I figured with a .50 cal and soft lead the solid slugs would be fine. They worked great in my old .45 kit gun.


Golfer,

 I haven't fired my smokepole for a while. It's in storage right now. Since I was using it strictly for hunting I went for a conical bullet rather than round ball. I had better accuracy with the conical or REAL bullets than ball in this particular rifle. At .50 cal the round ball had a reasonable amount of weight but when I started out it was with the .45 and that was too small to hunt deer with IMO being only 125 grains. The TC conical bullet was over 225 gr. and had far better ballistics. I cast them for the rifle until I wore out the barrel.

[Phaser11]

Goaly,
 Both are fantastic rifles. I just picked up a Traditions 50 cal flint lock pistol. Where I don't think I'll hunt with it, shooting it is just a blast! The best thing about black powder, is after about 3 or 4 shots all the bugs at the range are dead from the smoke!
 When I got this pistol, I thought it strange, I found my self sitting at the computer reading up on how firearms of the early 18th century worked! I had to relearn the technology

Good luck at your hunt!

Phaser11
Shoot safe, Shoot often and share your sport!
!

[StarOfAfrica2]

Some notes, shooting with the Minies...

1.  Dont overlube them.  The nice thing about using Minie-ball as your bullets is that they expand at the base when you fire, so the skirt contacts the rifling.  The major reason for rifling in black powder guns is to give the gunk somewhere to go, not to provide better accuracy.  With the twisted grooves in the barrel, the crud leftover after the shot goes down there and leaves the barrel itself free of obstructions longer, so you can get more shots fired before you have to clean it.  All you want is just enough lube to fill those grooves in the skirt.  When the skirt expands, the lube will catch the gunk in them from the previous shot, and carry it out the barrel, helping keep the barrel clean enough to continuously fire.  If you put too much lube on the bullet, it wont really do any harm, but it will make more of a mess.  And if it gets down into your powder, it can cause clumping and uneven fire.  

2.  After firing, remove the percussion cap, place the stock on the ground, and blow into the barrel.  Dont want to chance pouring powder in for your next shot and having a spark glowing down there in a little lump of powder that didnt go off with the rest.  Good way to lose some eyebrows.

3.  When you put the Minie into the barrel, you dont patch it like you do a round ball, and you certainly dont have to ram it.  You dont want to accidentally deform the bullet.  Just use the rod and lightly tap it to make sure its all the way down and didnt catch on anything.  The Minie is designed to DROP in, because of the skirt expansion.  It will be plenty large enough when the explosion starts it down the barrel.

4.  If you decide to cast your own, check with tire stores for used wheel weights.  Great source of free lead.  Be cautious casting Minie-balls though, because of the way they need to expand.  The skirt needs to be just right, and there should be "cuts" on the side where the lead is VERY thin (this helps with the expansion of the skirt).  Try to find some folks who already make their own if you are serious about it, and watch how they do it.  

As noted already, if you cast your own lead, make sure you have proper ventilation, good equipment, and proper protective gear.  A good leather apron is priceless for this kind of work.  Lead melts at 360 degrees.  You dont want to slop that on you.

Enjoy your rifle.    They are quite accurate and hit with LOTS of power.

[Golfer]

Agree with the above except for number two.  Sure it's on the safe side but it's more of an old wives tale.

It has probably happened but it would have been either in combat or some other situation that would warrant loading the gun much much much faster than you'd ever intend.

At my ho hum pace of loading at the range (and in the woods really) I'm probaby around 2 minutes per shot.  After a couple shots it's time to get out the hammer and tap the ball down the barrel using the starter and glove to cushion the impact.

I've fired multiple times in the woods twice with muzzleloaders.  The most recent I successfully killed a tree with a .54 caliber hawken.  The deer I shot at didn't run so I made like davy crockett and just started pouring powder down the barrel.  Rammed home a bullet and put on a new cap.  Loaded in ready to fire in record time (maybe 30 seconds for me).  I fired from a prone position shooting down a hill.  The good news is the gun didn't go off due to burning cinders/embers.  On to the bad news...

Long story short when I woke up it had started snowing and i was looking up at the sky with blood running down my nose.  Looked around and I'd slid backwards down the lime pile I was laying on top of and the gun was next to me slightly further down the hill.  I crawled back up to the top of the pile and looked to see that there was a dead deer and wondered how long I'd been out.

Long story short...use a powder measure.  I estimated I used about 300 grain worth of powder when I intended to use 120.

ooooops.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Golfer, those old wives got the story from somewhere.  

Like many accidents involved in black powder shooting, it wont happen often.  But when it does you'll remember it forever, and be damn lucky if you dont lose your eyes in the process.

I load and use black powder all the time.  In percussion cap guns, flintlocks, and in black powder catridges.  I use BP guns in shooting competitions, in demonstrations, for hunting, and just for fun.  I've encountered many "old wives tales" that modern shooters tell me I dont have to give any thought to.  I usually hear later on they had some accident.  I dont want to join their ranks.  An extra couple of seconds to be on the safe side is worth it to me.

Rule 1 of shooting.  BE SAFE.

Rule 2 of shooting.  HAVE FUN.

If there is ever any necessity to choose between the two, remember which one is number 1.

[Leslie]

2. After firing, remove the percussion cap, place the stock on the ground, and blow into the barrel. Dont want to chance pouring powder in for your next shot and having a spark glowing down there in a little lump of powder that didnt go off with the rest. Good way to lose some eyebrows.


Agree with most everything but this SoA.   If there was a glowing clump and you fanned it by blowing down the barrel, what do you think would happen?:

I was taught to leave the cap on the nipple after firing with hammer closed, so no air could get through there and fan possible glowing remnants of a cloth patch.  Wait a couple minutes and then load not from the flask but from a powder measure.  Then if it does go off it's only 65 grains and not a flask.

This can't be said enough and repeated again and again.  Avoid any habit or custom of having your face anywhere near the muzzle at all times except when cleaning or inspecting the bore.  Always hold the rifle at an angle away when using a ramrod and make sure the bullet is seated firmly on the charge.  Black powder will go off by percussion and possibly by ramming too hard.  A space between the powder and the ball may cause the rifle barrel to break open when fired.  Couple firm pushes along with measuring by means of the ramrod the distance a properly loaded charge would be (if in doubt) seats the bullet next to the powder.  Spectators should not be off to the side but behind the shooter.

Always unload when in camp.  It's easy to reload.  A dropped rifle could go off.  Treat the rifle as if it could go off by it's own will at any time.  Don't stand in front of or point at anything that wouldn't look good with a big hole in it.




Les

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Leslie
2. After firing, remove the percussion cap, place the stock on the ground, and blow into the barrel. Dont want to chance pouring powder in for your next shot and having a spark glowing down there in a little lump of powder that didnt go off with the rest. Good way to lose some eyebrows.


Agree with most everything but this SoA.   If there was a glowing clump and you fanned it by blowing down the barrel, what do you think would happen?:

I was taught to leave the cap on the nipple after firing with hammer closed, so no air could get through there and fan possible glowing remnants of a cloth patch.  Wait a couple minutes and then load not from the flask but from a powder measure.  Then if it does go off it's only 65 grains and not a flask.

Les

The reasoning I was given was that it did several things.  Your exhaled breath has more carbon dioxide than oxygen.  Any small clumps of powder that might have an ember glowing arent going to be big enough to do anything to hurt you, and there's plenty of room down there for it to burn out.  The breath also moves air down the barrel to help cool it off in between shots.  By the time you have measured your powder and are ready to reload, there shouldnt be anything left dangerous in the barrel (if there ever was).  

I heartily agree, you should NEVER put your face near the barrel once you start pouring powder in it.  Inevitably though, people do look down the barrel when they pour in the powder.  I also agree with using the measure to pour in the powder instead of the flask, although I'm guilty of doing that myself when I'm in a hurry.  

Couple more things that you reminded me of as well.  If you EVER have any doubt whether you already loaded the gun and cant remember, cap it and fire it (in a safe direction of course).  Wasting a cap is much preferred to wasting the gun (and maybe your life) if you double load it.  If you load it and fire it and the gun doesnt go off, dont assume it wont.  Wet or clumpy powder can get a spark in it and burn slow, and ignite as much as a minute or two later.  Let it sit, pointed in a safe direction, until you are fairly sure it wont go off, and then you can start procedures to try to unload it.  I highly recommend a CO2 discharge system for this.  I've used them a few times, they work great.  Fast, easy, and much safer than using a ball puller because you dont have to put ANYTHING in front of the barrel.

[stantond]

The number one rule of fire arm safety:

1.  Always tread every fire arm as if it were loaded.  

That makes putting your mouth over the muzzle of the gun and blowing ... right out.  Or, was this a joke?  If it was, it was in very poor taste.

The number two rule for muzzle loading firearms:

2.  Always measure  and add power from a separate powder measurer and never put powder in directly from the powder flask.  This is especially true for rifles.  Cap and ball revolvers aren't as critical because if you put too much powder, the ball won't fit.  

I don't put on a percussion cap until the last step, but I do put it on so I know the gun is loaded.  Black powder guns are a hoot.  I looked into smokeless black powder alternatives, but the smoke is part of the fun!  When did they start rifling muskets?  


Regards,

Malta

[Leslie]

No it's not a joke.  I've done it myself without thinking.  It serves no purpose.  I do check out the .270 by opening the bolt and looking down the barrel when I'm hunting, to make sure nothing is in the barrel to start out with.  Obsessive complusive I guess.




Les