Time to fix HQ

[Flayed1]

Ok first off the HQ takes quite a while to get to with enough ord to kill it, at high enough alt to not get your butt shot off by 163's.  Then after you kill it the NME can resup it wayyyyy to fast so it was almost pointless to hit in the first place but I was having thoughts with these small maps of making a Pre HQ bombing mission to kill troops all around the HQ making it harder to resup it... This though would requier over double the time of a normal HQ raid but we could do it with some dedicated guys....

  Now we have LOTS of troops all over the bases (NOTE: I like all  the new barracks) and it would now be next to impossible to kill all troops on every base without a 60 plane bomber mission of old MA biblical proportions... Boy those were fun
 Flying hither and yon trying to get them all while being chased all over the map by 163's and such.

  HQ needs to be fixed in some way.... At the very least it should take many more sup runs than it currently does to fix it...  

 Last night we took up about 6 flights or so of 17's to Nits HQ at 25K (We all know how long this takes) bombed it, killed 3 163's and 1 LA7, landed and a couple minuits later HQ was back up...

  HQ is a fun target to hit but the way it is now it is just kinda dissapointing when take the time to do a good mission for nothing.

  Just a request.. Thank you.

[kamilyun]

Originally posted by Flayed1
HQ needs to be fixed in some way.... At the very least it should take many more sup runs than it currently does to fix it...  

 Last night we took up about 6 flights or so of 17's to Nits HQ at 25K (We all know how long this takes) bombed it, killed 3 163's and 1 LA7, landed and a couple minuits later HQ was back up...

  HQ is a fun target to hit but the way it is now it is just kinda dissapointing when take the time to do a good mission for nothing.

  Just a request.. Thank you.

I'm sorry but I just got to respond...

You organized a mission, flew to the target, encountered the NME, shot down some them, suffered some losses, and still were able to RTB.  Sounds like a fun mission.  Seriously.  No sarcasm here.  It seems that you were able to accomplish everything the game is about...interacting with other players on the opposing team, reaching a target/goal, etc.  

However, you seem disappointed that you couldn't deprive the NME of dar.  That somehow they did not suffer enough.  Dar is what enables fights (especially dot dar).  HiTech has stated as much in some other thread which I don't have the time to look for.

Not trying to bash you or start another typical "furballer vs toolshedder" flame war, but I just don't understand how a mission which involves some good fighting/flying/shooting/bombing is "nothing" just b/c the NME is not deprived of dar for an hour.

[Flayed1]

But the entire point of the bomb run was to disable dar....  I don't fly my bombers to fight fighters, that is not what bombers are for, bombers are for blasting the NME strat to dust in order to deprive them of said strat.  

  HQ is one of the biggest bomber targets in game, I would assume that is why we have 163's by them to defend them..  Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..


  If we take the time to do a run like this, to acomplish a goal (other than shooting at the targets with wings) it seems only fair that it should take the NME a similar amout of time to undo the damage we spent all that time to inflict.  I'm not after the old way the HQ was, that was way to far on the other end of things. It sould be repairable but I think it should take a bit longer than it does now.  The way it is, it's just kinda a pointless target siting by a 163 base.

  I agree that this should not get into the Furballer vs strat player arguement but that it seems is the way you are looking at it.  You seem to think that flying on a long mission and shooting at a few planes should be enough to keep us happy and while this is a bit of fun it is not enough for those of us that like a bit more depth to the game.

[SlapShot]

HQ is one of the biggest bomber targets in game, I would assume that is why we have 163's by them to defend them.. Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..

Doesn't wacking the "C"ities first, and then wacking HQ, cause dar to be down longer than 10 minutes ?

[Easyscor]

The whole point to an HQ run is to take it down so the raiders can land and use the advantage to try to take some territory while it's down.  These same players are not the ones who are likely to take it down and auger/bail/ditch so they can re-up right away.

Whether the City is down or not doesn't matter if troops are available nearby. Each C-47 carries 15 minutes worth of supplies so it's supposed to takes 12 Goon runs to resupply. Toss in strat resupply (up to 15 minute rebuild) every 10 minutes to arrive at the down time.

Depending only on the strat, if the City is dead it takes up to 6 hours for the HQ to rebuild but when will that happen.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by SlapShot
HQ is one of the biggest bomber targets in game, I would assume that is why we have 163's by them to defend them.. Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..

Doesn't wacking the "C"ities first, and then wacking HQ, cause dar to be down longer than 10 minutes ?

Well yeah, but now wtih the increased ack and barracks at fields its even easier to resupply it, as chances are the fields aren't porked.
I think this is the gist of the original post.

Would also hope the HT looks at barracks downtime now. If there is at least double the amount of barracks on a field, once porked they should stay down for a reciprocal time.
It should also take more to resupply fields also.

Recent patch has turned out to be a double edged sword -
For a country in the bucket it is now a lot harder if not impossible for them to stop the steamroll.

[SlapShot]

If I remember correctly, there is only so much C-47s with field supplies can do ... the rest is by resupply train which in turn is supplied by the cities.

So, if the cities are obliterated and THEN HQ is demolished, dar can be down for quite some time.

If the cities are all 100% and HQ is taken down, between C-47 resupply and train resupply ... yes ... dar will be back up before you can land.

[Easyscor]

Originally posted by SlapShot
If I remember correctly, there is only so much C-47s with field supplies can do ... the rest is by resupply train which in turn is supplied by the cities.

I haven't seen that but it would explain some things.  Where can we find this information?

[SlapShot]

Well yeah, but now wtih the increased ack and barracks at fields its even easier to resupply it, as chances are the fields aren't porked.

Like I said above, the C-47 resupply is not the major link to getting HQ back up ... it can only reduce the down time to a certain extent and then all supplies after that are for naught ... resupply trains are the major resupply for HQ.

The real "strat" key here is taking cities out first and then drop HQ.

Recent patch has turned out to be a double edged sword -
For a country in the bucket it is now a lot harder if not impossible for them to stop the steamroll.

Not from where I was sitting last night. In the MW, the Bish were in the bucket and Rooks took a mainland base right next to HQ and wacked the crap out of it and then tried to take another nearby base.

It was the recent changes that gave the Bish the opportunity to get out of the "bucket" by repelling the attack and then provide an offensive opportunity to get the mainland back.

I love these new changes.

[Kev367th]

Your right C-47 / M3 aren't the major resupplier, but around 8 loads brings an HQ straight back up.

Few weeks back Rooks mounted a huge attack on our HQ, we had M3's waiting by the time they hit. Less than 5 mins later HQ was back up.

As I said Slap it's a double edged sword, it didn't help the Rooks today, it made things worse.
All our fields apart from 1 or 2 were fully up all along the Rook front.

Don't get me wrong Slap, changes aren't bad, but needed to be done in conjunction with a lot of others on the overall strat system.

Considering we waited 5+ months for this patch, I was expecting a lot more, and some of the bugs it has introduced are just ridiculous.

[SlapShot]

Your right C-47 / M3 aren't the major resupplier, but around 8 loads brings an HQ straight back up.

Not if the cities are destroyed first ... again ... thats the key ... wacking HQ without first taking out the cities is a waste of time ... like Flayed said.

Flayed should have had another wing that coordinated an attack on cities with the correct timing of his wing destroying HQ, then it would have been worth it.

As I said Slap it's a double edged sword, it didn't help the Rooks today, it made things worse.
All our fields apart from 1 or 2 were fully up all along the Rook front.

Not trying to be difficult here Kev ... but I just don't understand your point ... I am old ya know.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Your right C-47 / M3 aren't the major resupplier, but around 8 loads brings an HQ straight back up.

Not if the cities are destroyed first ... again ... thats the key ... wacking HQ without first taking out the cities is a waste of time ... like Flayed said.

Flayed should have had another wing that coordinated an attack on cities with the correct timing of his wing destroying HQ, then it would have been worth it.

As I said Slap it's a double edged sword, it didn't help the Rooks today, it made things worse.
All our fields apart from 1 or 2 were fully up all along the Rook front.

Not trying to be difficult here Kev ... but I just don't understand your point ... I am old ya know.

Lol OK I'll spell it out.

Because of the fact all the bases we needed to use to attack were fully up it was a lot easier to reset the Rooks today.
Prior they probably would have been porked.

Good for us yup, not so good for the Rooks.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol OK I'll spell it out.

Because of the fact all the bases we needed to use to attack were fully up it was a lot easier to reset the Rooks today.
Prior they probably would have been porked.

Good for us yup, not so good for the Rooks.

  ... DOH !!! ... yes ... the sword is double-edged ... but that makes it more dangerous and intriguely challenging.

Thanks for spelling it out ...

[kamilyun]

Originally posted by Flayed1
Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..
  I agree that this should not get into the Furballer vs strat player arguement but that it seems is the way you are looking at it.  You seem to think that flying on a long mission and shooting at a few planes should be enough to keep us happy and while this is a bit of fun it is not enough for those of us that like a bit more depth to the game.

Hitting a single building and wiping out a country's entire dar is one of the 'gamiest' aspects in AH2.  Central commands are deep underground and virtually immune to such a strike.  But I realize that this is a game, and not a real war.

In our game, hits on HQ are usually only achieved when one side is already at a disadvantage (numbers imbalance, or small territory).  When dar goes out, players start logging, or going to other arenas.  So yes, there is a tactical advantage, but also, the numerical advantage is just further exacerbated.  

In all honesty, if you had a switch which would turn off the NMEs dar, would you use it?  I wouldn't.  It seriously is one of those things I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy (or chess piece).

Universal loss of dar destroys game play (for all types, I believe) and is unrealistic.

[hubsonfire]

You get a few guys over HQ, and you manage to get enough ord on the thing, and radar goes down. The bad guys get a few guys over HQ, and they manage to get enough supplies on the thing, and radar comes back up. I guess I'm not seeing the problem.