The Mighty 8th Frames are the best

[Viper61]

ALL CM'S:

  to all of the behind the scene's guys that made this excellent scenario happen.

  This scenario is the best of all of the FSO scenario's.  I myself would like to see alot more of them.  These scenario's seem to motovate the guys the most and turn out seems to be good compared to some scenario's.

  The 325th enjoys all the FSO events.  But the air war over europe in 44' and 45' are the funnest The AC are great and the escorting missions with 100 AC in formation are stunning to say the least.

  I hope we won't have to wait a year for the next 8th AF missions.

Viper 61

[Dace]

Originally posted by Viper61


  This scenario is the best of all of the FSO scenario's.  I myself would like to see alot more of them.  These scenario's seem to motovate the guys the most and turn out seems to be good compared to some scenario's.

  The 325th enjoys all the FSO events.  But the air war over europe in 44' and 45' are the funnest The AC are great and the escorting missions with 100 AC in formation are stunning to say the least.



Viper 61

The scenario is not much fun from the german point of view, unless some restriction is made on the altitude of allied bombers. I can totally see where your comin from though, from the allied point of view this IS probably the best scenario to fly in, Ponys and Jugs rule 109s and 190s, from 15-30k (where most of these fights happen). Look at it from a German standpoint and you will see that its not much fun to climb to 30k to see bombers only 3000ft below running full power and outrunning you. IMHO, in this particular set, 1 planeset totally outmatches the other, which from historical standpoint is totally correct, but I'd throw history aside to make a more fun event.

[Kurt]

Dace, there is no need to throw history aside, just choose a different fight...

1944 and 45 the Allies already had established Air Superiority...   Scenarios in that time frame are going to be lopsided...  Just like battle of britain scenarios are very challenging for the allies.

I think it would be fun to see a mid/late war europe scenario that is more heavily weighted with fighters.  Eastern front is always fun.

I need to read up, I'm having trouble thinking of a good Allied V Axis mid war europe fight that would be more evenly matched, but I'm sure there is something.

[Keeler101]

I like a cupa history with my FSO:D


I think The scores show a pretty even Event

 The germans that we caught up with knew thier tatics pretty darn good and took us to the deck to fitem

Maybe a alt caps for buffs next time to lvl the field a smudge

[Dace]

Originally posted by Keeler101
I like a cupa history with my FSO:D  

Don't get me wong,..that's my favorite part about FSO, the sense of history.
But I do believe in skewing history a lil bit to make a more fun event for ALL.
That can be done without hurting to historical aspect of things,..i.e ALT CAP.

[Kuhn]

Originally posted by Dace
The scenario is not much fun from the german point of view, unless some restriction is made on the altitude of allied bombers. I can totally see where your comin from though, from the allied point of view this IS probably the best scenario to fly in, Ponys and Jugs rule 109s and 190s, from 15-30k (where most of these fights happen). Look at it from a German standpoint and you will see that its not much fun to climb to 30k to see bombers only 3000ft below running full power and outrunning you. IMHO, in this particular set, 1 planeset totally outmatches the other, which from historical standpoint is totally correct, but I'd throw history aside to make a more fun event.

You should look at APdrones synopsisof all three frames. He considered it a draw. If alt limits were in affect I think the out come would have been different. Some times FSO is fun, some times it's not so fun. I do believe nothing should change in FSO!

[Valkyrie]

I don't know what your talking about for alt caps. The losses for buffs were rather high compared to a normal day in the fight over Europe. Alt caps are a huge bias to the LW in this sort of event. And when my group flew buffs we were hard pressed to make target at 24k on time. We had a decent formation and were hit by several FW's 8-14 that wouldn't press their attacks. And we flew at nearly 65% power just to hold our formation ias =~ 160knots. If you cant find us and get in position thats your fault don't punish buffs for your sides own sort commings.

As a buff pilot I have no desire to have an outcome like a Schwinfort or Reagansburg stlye mission everytime. That is fly for 1.5 hours only to die to a swarm of 100 190's 20k higher than I. Maybe you can learn to position ahead of the buffs so you might make the intercept next time. We learned our job of formation flying and did rather well this time (56th frame 2). This was as fair a scenraio as I have ever seen and I have flown in plenty of them. codos to the desgin team and sides on this one.


Vlkyrie

[Kurt]

Historically, 24 - 25k is not an unreasonable altitude for a raid like this.

I think the problem is that so many players are used to fighting down in the thick air around 5k feet.  If people would spend more time with fighters in the high altitudes where they belong, I'm sure they would be more proficient in these kinds of scenarios.

However, with bases in AH averaging 25 to 30 miles apart, no one ever sees those kinds of altitudes in the M.A.  Its a matter of practice.

[Dace]

Originally posted by Kurt
I think the problem is that so many players are used to fighting down in the thick air around 5k feet.  If people would spend more time with fighters in the high altitudes where they belong, I'm sure they would be more proficient in these kinds of scenarios.

 

FW-190s and Bf-109s are dogs compared to Jugs and Ponys at that altitude, no matter who is piloting them.

[Viper61]

Dace your right that in a one on one engagement against two equal pilots the American rides will usualy win.  However the FSO is about more than that as you know.  It has been my experance that in most cases the application of focused combat power and superior tactics win engagements.

  I will say that some squads have more disopline in the FSO than others.  There are some squads that come into the FSO to do nothing else than furball or see how many personnal kills they can run up.  There are others that coordinate very well and can fight as part of a larger team.  When the sides are set at the beginning of the event you can look at it and see if it will be easy or hard just based on who your up against.  Likewise on the split up of who is CIC for the frames.  The only wide card is the turn out at the time of the event.

  During the last 3 frames the 325th experanced 3 completely different outcomes flying to nearly the same target each frame and they were:

     A.  Landed many kills
     B.  Wiped out to the man
     C.  Flew around and never engaged the enemy

  The reason for the different outcomes in my opinion was combat power and tactics.  And of course some luck.

  The Frames themselves were nearly a draw at the end with only a 40 point differenace.

  The air start at 20K and the rules of the game about striking targets within the first 60 minutes keep the bombers from climbing up to 30K where it's safer from the LW.  In the 3 frames in my little area I never say a bomber above 25K.  I did see a good number running home on the deck much to my surprise.

  The 325th flew the B-Model 51's and they do not preform very well above 25.5K  At that line the Manifold drops by 20 and they get squirely above that.  At 30K its takes an experanced gaming pilot to fight it.  I think the 190 and the 51B are pretty equal as it goes up there.  The Jugs rule at 32K and the 109's suck at 20K.  But like I said most of the bombers were operating at 22 to 25K from what I saw.

  Over all the FSO is a great part of AH and my personnal activites on Friday nights.  If the Allies had trashed the Axis in these frames I would be with you on recommending some changes.  I just didnt see it however based on what I saw in my sector and the outcome of the scores.

  I would love to see these frames played over again:aok   They are assume!  CM team well done, when can we do it again?

Viper 61
Ops Officer
325th VFG