Author Topic: Arena Balance (Read 5306 times)

LYNX · « **Reply #210 on:** December 09, 2006, 02:47:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Okay Laurie, please explain why numbers imbalances are better for the game. Lynx, you can have a crack at this one too.

Now I know the 367th sticks to the blue arena where the bish always have the numbers, and I've seen lynx on before, and I think he likes to hang out in orange, since he's a rook. That pretty much accurate?

No problem Hubs but forgive my copy paste. It's just quicker. Firstly, I have no objection to arena balance. I do object to FORCED balance though. It's just impractical to have 100 % player per player balancing for a couple of reasons. 1)It kills the Squad concept. 2) guys in tower, guys in jabo, guys in bombers, guys in GV's and guys in fighters are ALL GOING TO BE DIFFERENT per side . 3)what happens when a guy discos... 1 player from each side gotta go or get locked in tower ?

I agree with you that one side fielding 2 to 1 is unacceptable but you have to agree the 2 LW arena's have exacerbated this problem. It's to easy to bail from LWb to LWo because your getting your arse kicked. I believe an incentive to switch is the way to go....not forced. see paste -->

The 2 ideas I suggested were only 1 Late war arena or no Late War arena switching for 1 hour to curtail PASSIVE imbalances. I also like this 1 (copied it from VIRAGE below).

Maintain current log in system. i.e. If you were last ROOK you log in as ROOK. Change the 'change country' system. When 'changing countries': Highest team is locked. Middle team is open. Lowest team is open with a PERK award.

The reason I've been orange all week is to actually TEST. See paste from another thread today.---->

I have only used Orange last week and this week for the test/s. 1 base was to restrictive but the newer version is a "little" more acceptable. You still find yourself fighting for or defending the same base all night.

Dunno if that's good for customer retention. It's ideal for the short term "hook" of new players or for the furballer with just 30 minutes to play. 45 second flight to fight.....woooohoooo

Personally I didn't like arena splits but gave all arenas a go. Still prefer all plane set arenas. Personally I didn't like 2 LW arenas because it promotes "Passive" imbalance. Imbalance due to guys wanting fun as opposed to getting a kick in. Why not have a third LWg so knights can dominate in 1 arena also ?

I have no objection to HTC making chits loads of dosh from his hard work. Enterprise is fine with me. He's got the best sim on the market even before all the changes. I guess customer "hook / retention" is a driving force.

With the CHRISTMAS season upon us we will see more 2 weekers but after Christmas all the kids will vanish along with most of the mouse players and unfortunately some of our long term players (bread and butter players) if a forced balance system is enabled.

P.S Late War Orange is workable once folk get used to organisation and some more tweaks. The current arena IS/ WAS a stalemate arena. I think it was a bad choice for this game enhancing test. Some folks getting turned off for the wrong reasons.

Bruv119 · « **Reply #211 on:** December 09, 2006, 02:51:29 PM »

I tend to agree lynx.

What if the new system is used in one big LW arena with no caps. See how we go from there.

LYNX · « **Reply #212 on:** December 09, 2006, 03:20:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bruv119
I tend to agree lynx.

What if the new system is used in one big LW arena with no caps. See how we go from there.

Can't see no harm in testing 1 late war arena. Withdraw other late war or lock it until test is done.

On the whole all teams have equal numbers, give or take 10 % -ish but not across Two (2) late wars. If and when ( time of day ) the numbers become way imbalanced...say after 1 team has 35 % supremacy, implement VIRAGES idea and pay say 20 perks optionally placed (fighter, bomber, Gv) for switching.

Maintain current log in system. i.e. If you were last ROOK you log in as ROOK. Change the 'change country' system. When 'changing countries': Highest team is locked. Middle team is open. Lowest team is open with a PERK award.

soupcan · « **Reply #213 on:** December 09, 2006, 04:11:56 PM »

<---- does not want to see HTC bring in "forced" balancing. while it can get
frustrating flying for the underdog i would rather be undermanned than have
a bunch of "forced fellow countrymen" reluctantly fighting beside me.

for myself i will almost always switch to the side with the lower numbers unless numbers are fairly close in which case i switch to country with fewest bases.
while this maybe easy for myself (only have a 2 person squad) i can appreciate how larger squads may have some logistical issues with switching every time they log on.

when i do get frustrated i try to change my mindset a little and that helps....
"so what if they get this base "
"so what if they win the war"
" a ha, it took 5 of them diving in 1 after the other to get me"
" look how stupid that looks, 10 cons chasing 1 of us mauhahaha"
imagining the look on there faces when they failed to notice you
pulling an ostie out while they continued to lazily dive the empty runways
at which point you shread their wings.

for those of you who are not in large squads and just feel loyalty to a particular country i say : while that is certainly your right to feel that way
you truly are missing out on some of the community's better folk.
after flying for all countries i have found that there are plenty of great
people everywhere in this game flying for bish, knit, and yes even rook.

just my $.02.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #214 on:** December 09, 2006, 07:55:03 PM »

While I don't expect a perfect balance across countries, I would like some semblence of balance. A disparity of 5 or 10 or 12.125% or whatever would be acceptable, but what I see every night I log in (with the exception of a bop squad night in orange that simultaneously tanked bish numbers in blue, and brought them even with rooks in orange, causing nearly even numbers in both arenas), is one country having numbers equal to both the smaller countries, or nearly so. 35/45/74, 60/65/110, 35/40/80, etc. This, IMO, blows.

I'll agree that a system that encourages balance without any penalties, restrictions, or active measures by HTC would be great. However, I think it would be extremely naive to believe that they would work. The perk multiplier is a perfect example of this. For that reason, I don't think any system that uses perks, points, scoring (which probably has the best odds, IMO, of being effective) or any other carrot & stick method will work. The troop multiplier idea is interesting, but I fear it would only lead to greater local imbalances on top of arena imbalances. One thing that has been shown over and over is that people around here really like the path of the least resistance. Anyway...

Now, with the test arena setup in place, people are not only maintaining the imbalance, they are increasing it (I do agree that this is happening, but not exactly on the causes), and I suspect that as the underdogs get more and more frustrated, they will also log out and head for the arena where they have an advantage. I suppose they might just not play at all, or worse for HTC, cancel their accounts, but the effects of this will be felt by all, be it through greater imbalances for the underdogs, even higher ENY limits for the hordeside, and even more whining in here about ENY and hordes and balance and and Dogfights on the History Channel and who knows what else.

Some interesting ideas being tossed about, and it's nice to know people are giving this some thought, even if we're not seeing a lot of action taken yet. Anyway, my drywall mud is hopefully dry now, and I can get something productive done.

bj229r · « **Reply #215 on:** December 09, 2006, 08:16:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
While I don't expect a perfect balance across countries, I would like some semblence of balance. A disparity of 5 or 10 or 12.125% or whatever would be acceptable, but what I see every night I log in (with the exception of a bop squad night in orange that simultaneously tanked bish numbers in blue, and brought them even with rooks in orange, causing nearly even numbers in both arenas), is one country having numbers equal to both the smaller countries, or nearly so. 35/45/74, 60/65/110, 35/40/80, etc. This, IMO, blows.

I'll agree that a system that encourages balance without any penalties, restrictions, or active measures by HTC would be great. However, I think it would be extremely naive to believe that they would work. The perk multiplier is a perfect example of this. For that reason, I don't think any system that uses perks, points, scoring (which probably has the best odds, IMO, of being effective) or any other carrot & stick method will work. The troop multiplier idea is interesting, but I fear it would only lead to greater local imbalances on top of arena imbalances. One thing that has been shown over and over is that people around here really like the path of the least resistance. Anyway...

Now, with the test arena setup in place, people are not only maintaining the imbalance, they are increasing it (I do agree that this is happening, but not exactly on the causes), and I suspect that as the underdogs get more and more frustrated, they will also log out and head for the arena where they have an advantage. I suppose they might just not play at all, or worse for HTC, cancel their accounts, but the effects of this will be felt by all, be it through greater imbalances for the underdogs, even higher ENY limits for the hordeside, and even more whining in here about ENY and hordes and balance and and Dogfights on the History Channel and who knows what else.

Some interesting ideas being tossed about, and it's nice to know people are giving this some thought, even if we're not seeing a lot of action taken yet. Anyway, my drywall mud is hopefully dry now, and I can get something productive done.

I hate squealing hate this whole thing---had high hopes for it at the start. What we have now is single-country hordes at all the bases in play, with no fighting whatsoever--trench warfare, with no war. All that happens is everyone is 5-10k higher. Cant get into Blue is it has reached its cap

hubsonfire · « **Reply #216 on:** December 09, 2006, 10:12:21 PM »

Since I only see you in Orange, and I only see you on as a rook, and only when the rooks are fielding as many players as both bish and knits combined, you'll understand why I don't have even the slightest pity for you.

pluck · « **Reply #217 on:** December 09, 2006, 11:27:05 PM »

if nothing is moving why do as of tonight the knights have 100 fields, rooks 95 and bish 50? looks like things are moving in the orange arena, just not in a day.

LYNX · « **Reply #218 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:10:54 AM »

by Hubs

Now, with the test arena setup in place, people are not only maintaining the imbalance, they are increasing it (I do agree that this is happening, but not exactly on the causes), and I suspect that as the underdogs get more and more frustrated, they will also log out and head for the arena where they have an advantage. I suppose they might just not play at all, or worse for HTC, cancel their accounts, but the effects of this will be felt by all, be it through greater imbalances for the underdogs, even higher ENY limits for the hordeside, and even more whining in here about ENY and hordes and balance and and Dogfights on the History Channel and who knows what else.

We are seeing eye to eye on some facets of the game or rather the way it's going. Firstly check my hours played for the last 4 or 5 months. You'll notice a massive drop in hours played since the arena splits. The reason being I didn't want to be hoarded neither did I want to be the hordie so I have been logging out.

I don't want to switch sides because the rooks ain't pissed me off enough yet like Bish did 3 yrs ago. I don't want to tell my squaddies what arena to fly in or what side to fly for. Worse still I didn't want to say to 1 or 2 squaddies "tuff titties" if your locked out and can't get in here with us. "Screw you guys we're OK" is not an option so I disbanded the squad.

What we are seeing now is the 2 Late war arenas settling into their respective "comfy" zones. Bish in blue, Rooks in orange and poor Knitwits in the middle (kick um harder I say

). Knights need a late war green so they can get comfy to. Left to long this imbalance will be the norm.

I say 90% of folk want to use LW arenas. Make 1 LW arena or 3. Got to be easier to do than write watermelon loadsa stuff for forced balance. I am reminded of NASA. They expended loads of time, man hours and money developing an ink pen to write in space where as the former USSR used a pencil.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing as we all know. HTC said the old MA was getting unhealthy. Coulda turned DOT DAR on from ground level to the moon. So no NOE raids 3/4 of an arena away from the main conflicts. Coulda made level bombers drop from F6 or tilt mechanism (my main gripe for 3 yrs). Stops dive bombing hvy bombers or accuracy in suicide drops. Coulda real whacked up the ENY for 2 to 1 imbalances.

hitech · « **Reply #219 on:** December 10, 2006, 11:49:55 AM »

Going with #2.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #220 on:** December 10, 2006, 12:09:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Going with #2.

Awesome!!! Keep up the excellent work on this game that is getting back to better days.

BlauK · « **Reply #221 on:** December 10, 2006, 12:25:02 PM »

#2... forcing people to join a certain country or log off?

Seriously?

Let's also delete the squadrons... what is the point of having them around to ruin the officially correct gameplay?
Several of these "developments" have been small steps towards making it harder for the people in squadrons or in small established communities to play together. Now this is going to be a lot bigger step.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #222 on:** December 10, 2006, 12:35:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BlauK
#2... forcing people to join a certain country or log off?

Seriously?
Let's also delete the squadrons... what is the point of having them around to ruin the officially correct gameplay?
Several of these "developments" have been small steps towards making it harder for the people in squadrons or in small established communities to play together. Now this is going to be a lot bigger step.

HTC has given ample opportunities for those gangbanging to "rectify the situation", and they have refused. Squads will not be disbanded, NOW they'll have to switch like they should have to begin with, instead of following the "Free 25 Perk Trail".

bj229r · « **Reply #223 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:16:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Since I only see you in Orange, and I only see you on as a rook, and only when the rooks are fielding as many players as both bish and knits combined, you'll understand why I don't have even the slightest pity for you.

Errrnge was fairly even when I got in, at one point Nits outnumbered Rooks--by midnight est, was absurdly in favor of rooks (I'm guessing they were being reset yet agin in Blue at that time)

Platano · « **Reply #224 on:** December 10, 2006, 11:31:08 PM »

I really hope He doesnt go with number 2 for a number of reasons.....

Not to mention to whine-o-meter will reach record highs..

And i personally dont want to get split up from my Squad which is really the only reason I log on everynight... But if it is Implemented There will be no point in Squads and I myself Will most likely Cancel my account...

I guess I'll keep Pwning NewU's in H2H