Author Topic: Changes to come.  (Read 30808 times)

Offline JB88

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« Reply #735 on: December 14, 2006, 06:42:07 PM »
well, in all fairness, i was trying to stress PR more than i was trying to stress marketing...they can be interchangable, but good PR is good for stamping out fires as well as starting them at the right time.

i can see what he means by the nightmare though.  it certainly could be.
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Offline Tilt

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« Reply #736 on: December 14, 2006, 07:07:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
So now the choices.
1. Can put it into the mid war.
2. Can put it into 1 late war arena.
3. Can put it into all arenas.

What would your choices be.

HiTech

OK I'm not JB88

I kinda wish this element was introduced before the forced side switching..............

Seems that if we are eventaully targetting inter LW arena hopping then it has to be in both LW arenas.

I think its very important that the war status is easy for a player to see.

Very important that however its presented it does not cause confusion and hence dissapointment.

I would go to the extent of giving countries objectives............. on their clipboards

eg

To win Bishop must stil capture

2 fields in Bishop land
3 fields in Rook land
1 fields in Knight land


Then of course you have to define those "lands". Once upon a time some terrain clipboard maps had starting boundries.............I think they should return.........else some sort of table easier to read than the present war status clip page.

I would be wary of making the uncapturables any more than 30% (of original territory)and they to should be very clearly defined and known. Plus vehicle spawns out of and into the uncapturables should be considered again in the light of the fields fortress  roles.

A situation where one side is down to its uncapturables and they are all porked is equally undesirable. Quite frankly I would add AAA (fluffy ack) in copius quantities to at least two key (medium/large) uncapturables

Sorry the above is kinda giving granny egg sucking lessons. Its highly likely that its all been considered and decided upon. But I would rather look an arse here than end up with a system that but for a few tweeks could have been free of "nasty details".
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Offline Tilt

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« Reply #737 on: December 14, 2006, 07:21:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech

One of the things I have learned is that , a pure marketing type person interacting with the community is an absolute night mare . W
They typically do far more damage than you could ever imagine. There problem is that a marketing / sales type personality is very much driven by telling people what they want to hear.
HiTech


Sorry

You've drifted off topic into a theory which is  bull****.

The above is not the act of a pure marketing/sales type personality......

The above is  the act of a poor marketing/sales type personality......

It may be the act of the typical bull**** "I've gotta make every one happy" amateur marketing idiot......or sales fool who gives the farm away to get the order or indeed the conundrum facing most "politicians".....................

Good marketeers and sales persons are "successful communicators"..................

You may be CEO but if you are a successfull communicator then you will find that you are also a good marketeer / sales person.

I know its off topic and probably broke some rule or other......but its the sort of generalisation that irks me some what.
:furious
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Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #738 on: December 14, 2006, 07:27:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BansheCH
ok lets say its done your way and something goes wrong that day. Tell me what the diffrence is?

Edit: Tell me what the diffrence is any other day


Main difference -
It happens when there isn't the most customers on.

Bit like -
Would I do a network or server upgrade with everybody at work, even though I'm there to fix any problems?
Or wait until it was quiet, or late afternoon when most have left.
Whole idea is that any problems affects as few people as possible, not as many as possible.
By the time the 'main' group comes into work eveything is running smoothly.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 07:31:55 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline Waffle

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« Reply #739 on: December 14, 2006, 07:31:38 PM »
I'm still kinda partial to something like this...

The ENY is no longer running - .fly what ever plane you wish...

Join what ever side you wish.....even if the numbers are skeewed some...





Side A starts getting over populated:

Message:

"Our country's fuel and ordnance supply is under strict rationing now..all planes can only take 75% fuel, and only 500lb bombs or less."

Side A keeps growing:

Message:

"Our country's fuel and ordnance supply is reaching a critical level. All planes can only take 50% fuel and 100lb bombs."

Side A is over the top:

Message:

"Our country's  fuel and ordinance supply is exhausted. Planes may only take 25% fuel and are unable to take ordinance at this time"

That'd take you back to the "porking fuel and ord" down to 25% whines....

Were those better than these whines? :)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 07:37:18 PM by Waffle »

Offline bj229r

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« Reply #740 on: December 14, 2006, 08:25:35 PM »
OK..LW Blue...Nits 122...Rooks....88...Nits ENY..1.1? Bish in middle somewhere

That doesnt even stop LA7:eek:
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Offline E25280

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« Reply #741 on: December 14, 2006, 08:40:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Airscrew Your a knight. To win you would have to have 90% of knight bases, 30% of bishop bases, 30% of rook bases.


HiTech


Quote
Originally posted by hitech
I have completed the new capture war win system.

Now the choices I face.
Assumtion.

I'm fairly sure it will help with the current country balances between arena.
If it helps, the current balancing system should hardly ever take effect. I.E. no waiting.

I could be wrong, but this reset system would seem to guarantee a complete end to resets.  

Any rational player that sees one country is close to half the map will fight against that country.  Because of the balancing system, even if the large country has numerical superiority, the size of that superiority will be insufficient to fend off two countries.

Thus the other two sides will quickly regain ground as either there will be close to a 2-1 superiority on both fronts, or deadlock on one front while the other country rolls against only token opposition.

In other words, does this reset system make the balancing system unnecessary (as the large side is virtually guaranteed to be ganged)?



No, no, wait, I said "rational player".  That may be the flaw in my logic . . . :D

Still, seems the systems in conjunction will make resets impossible.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as there is an ebb and flow across the territories rather than a stagnant one.  "Movement" and/or "momentum" are what helps keep it interesting for the "landgrabbers".  And for a minority of those, taking resets away is going to bum them out.
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Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #742 on: December 14, 2006, 09:13:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by E25280
I could be wrong, but this reset system would seem to guarantee a complete end to resets.  

No, no, wait, I said "rational player".  That may be the flaw in my logic . . . :D

I recall several times in the past were scenario was something like
Rooks 27 bases, Knights 31 bases, and Bish 5 bases.   A bunch of Rooks are trying to capture Bish bases along with Knights, in fact there would be clashes between Rooks and Knights at the same Bish base.   The rooks were so intent on capturing a base they didnt realize they were helping  the Knights win the reset, because while Rooks were fighting Knights over a Bish base,  Knights were capturing other Bish and even Rook bases.

Offline Benny Moore

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« Reply #743 on: December 15, 2006, 01:55:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ZZ3
I dont like it.
I have'nt liked the recent changes for various reasons. Now we are going to have to sit in the tower and wait, or switch countries, for the sake of balancing.


Oh horror!  You might actually have to switch countries once in a while!  Never mind that some people (me) switch every time they notice an imbalance.

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #744 on: December 15, 2006, 03:28:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by E25280

In other words, does this reset system make the balancing system unnecessary (as the large side is virtually guaranteed to be ganged)?


 


My view was that it could...................  provided as you infer, that players get feed back regarding the "status" of the war such that they are sufficiently informed to respond and "gang" a massively dominant side.

Its the self balancing 3 sided war in its purest form.
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Offline ZagaZig

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« Reply #745 on: December 15, 2006, 03:38:54 AM »
You want to populate all the other servers on a regular basis? I'll tell ya how to do it;

 Right now your front page on the website only lists 5 winners per campaign, fighter, attack, vehicle & bomber with an over all score winner.

  Break that down into difinitive winners of each arena(i.e. 5 winners for each of the 4 arenas[EW,MW & 2 LW's] and throw in an overall winner based on stats from all 4 arenas & vola, you have created the incentive for folks to remain loyal to all areas. So that you'd be listing a total of 21 winners at the end of each campaign(not counting runner ups) Everyone from score hoes- furballers could have a shot at something somewhere & it would also confound the shade account abusers from ganging the final results

  You know there is one other aspect concerning the "hording" that everyone seems so intent to claiming is to blame but fails to point out & that is the time zone element. It's not a matter of rooks have more ppl overall or kights have too few people, alot of times its based on folks who are always on at certain times (in or out of squad) based on time zones & population distribution across the world. When brits are logging off for the evening, Aussies are logging on in their morning. Americans are also situated the same east coast verse west coast, some variables are not negotiable.

    I'll tell you honestly why i left under my original CPID of, because changes were instituted in mid-campaign while i was making a run for that 1st place bomber spot, talk about changing the rules of the game on a guy & making my task almost insumountable...well you almost did, i finished 2nd even considering the changes.....I hung in there like a trooper for my squads sake even tho i didn't like it, but when it was all over & said & done i said that's it.  I'd love nothing more than to return as a full fledged paying member & rejoin my original squadron(which by the way moved here from AW & has been around 10+ years) and play to win & make front page news on the HT website, help train new members & help recruit longterm players who would by the way also be long term subscribers of your game...........

  Trust me when i say that alot of old AW folks live here & alot of WB fans too and to put it bluntly, we've all been down that road of disaster before and i would have to say that most of those folks posting here are posting more of the "please don't make the same sort of mistake" sorta of stuff verse "how dare you eat off of my plate"

  If you look at it like this, "we do not want you to fail bacause we have no one else to turn to in recourse" i think you might better understand the gunshyness alot of folks are feeling.

  You have a very loyal following, not to many games can claim that throphy, and people are willing to experiment & "enhance" to a certain extent "within" reason. Maybe babysteps are in order verse giant leaps forward......i don't know. I do know it's best to "belong" to a gaming community verse just playing the game.

  You are the developer and have a different persepctive on things outside of "our" realm as the gamer, but to us gamers, the game is our "everything", like a drug addict, we need our fix, diluted we don't get "it" and look for alternatives.

  I used to be an AW, from version 1 all the way thru MV and left 1 month before EA shut it down, WB's never made the grade with me so i gave up flying online for 5+ years, by chance i met up with old squadmates from the AW days & came to your company, loved it from the start, was like "advanced" Air Warrior, 4-5x's the plane sets. GV enhanced, more complex strategy, naval ops.....etc....etc..great stuff...kudo's

  The perk point system was a nice touch as well as the ENY thingy(ya learn to live with it and accept) Now i'm not that big of a number cruncher so someone else can back me up as i have read that there DOES need to be some tweaking in these areas....fine we can deal with it.

  The main bone of contention i am submitting to you as the developer from the gaming aspect is that forced player limitations are not acceptable. Players have neither the time nor patience to wait to get their "fix" and you alienate your customers by doing so. If i have even 10 mins to fly 1-mission & hope to get a kill, i don't want to wait even 1-minute in any sort of que for a spot to play, i won't pay to wait. I won't wait in line at the grocery store to be checked out just to get my groceries bagged for me, i'll go to the self-check line & do it myself.

  Now i will admitt that i was against the original concept of splitting the MA, and it did hurt squad ops as at that time there was no way of knowing where everyone was at so it made command & control an issue. This was resolved by adding the dot command to our menu but was then difused by putting cap limits into place which limits squad ops as a whole in many different ways(yes there are ways around these but there are also obstructions) nothing is perfect, just limiting the downward aspect is.

  So here's a couple of possibilities for you to ponder, don't stop at 4 arenas, go to 8, group the early & mid war planes together as one and keep the latewar set. Make 4 map sets similar to AW in that you have big europe/little europe & big pacific & little pacific with early/late variations.

  Big maps & little maps/ lots of water & lotsa land/ early plane sets & late war sets, setup a scoreing system for 8 winners in each category + 1 overall winner from PAC & Euro with another overall winner for the combined 8 arenas(long term goal) add in a seperate "dueling/fighter town arena" for the 'quick fix" genre and score that seperatly from the main arena's.

  Put in place your perk ord system, upgraded ENY, capture system and any other changes you'd like, but for gods sake remove the arena cap limits & let us fly. In fact put into place a more "strategic" aspect, not just for us bomber types, but for the sake of clarity & realism. You have squads here based solely as ground pounders like the LTARS, they are great at what they do, it's not for everyone, but it works for them, so more power to them. Some guys are so good in fighters it ain't funny, they could fly ME-262's for the rest of their lives with the perks they have accumulated, so be it if that makes them go, some guys can hit you with an ack gun 1st shot at 3k and most can't hit a barn at 200 yrds, so be it, that's the way people are, some are better at certain things than others & to group us all into 1-lump sum to create parity isn't going to work. I've flown an ME-262 twice in a year since i started playing, 1st one i augered on takeoff(lesson learned) 2nd one i augered in a dive going to fast(2nd lesson learned), doesn't mean anyone owes me a 3rd chance, just means i need to stick to what i do best which is bombing, different strokes for different folks and i can deal with it.....i don't need parity. I accept my own limitations & play within those bounds, i don't need artificial restraints, maybe some do, but doesn't the ENY & perk system cover that already?[minus tweaks proposed by others?]

  BB's can be a great source of "new" ideas as well as great consternation. I'll admitt i've been more of the later than the former, but suffice it to say that frustration can be a detrimental thing. Maybe you are addicted to the BB's like alot of others here(partial addict) You have done a wonderful job of being an onhands developer by staying glued here to these pages and taking into consideration alot of ideas presented and taking alot of heat from folks[raises hand], but let me add this, their are also alot of other great ideas lurking in the wings from long term squad members as well as C.O./X.O. types which due the convolution of flame or be flamed mentality here on the BB goes unspoken.

  When i see a C.O. of a squadron make his 200th post after being on here for 2 years you know it holds water as thats only about 1 post a week verse someone who has 5,000+ post in the same ammount of time which leads me to believe he doesn't even play the darned game as he's posting 3 times a day and has a view on everyone elses view.

  I know you don't need to lurk here & explaine yourself, kudos again for being a spot on developer & defending your positions, but may i suggest that you give full due to the long term squadrons here on Aces High who have helped foster your vision and have patronized your company for X ammount of years and possible ask for input from them.....maybe in a private way so as not to inflame the BB?

  Might i also suggest that you institute a "voting" tabulation for newcomers at the end of their 2-week trial period as either why they did or did not sign up to be members & get positive feedback. I know you have one on the front end as to how you "heard" about AH and started out........

  I know that many squads here relocated from AW and some from WB's & some were started from the getgo in AH1, they do deserve your respect for their loyalty & player retention that goes on everyday we play here. Outside of my views & others like me, i can respect where they have been in the past & where & what they would like to see instituted in the future.

  I know that any directional path chosen is yours and your alone to make, but with say 10 different alternative directions to choose from, i would think that these long term members could help cut that down to say 3 outta 10 all of which would be acceptable & make the majority of folks happy in the long run, keeping retention high, bringing old members back & fostering a working relationship with newer membership that would garner respect for your company as "player friendly" upfront.

  To sum it up, if you fail, we all fail as players & no one wants that to happen, we love the game & want you win on your end, just our victory conditions differ.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 03:41:47 AM by ZagaZig »

Offline TexInVa

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« Reply #746 on: December 15, 2006, 04:47:41 AM »
[hijack]
Quote
Originally posted by smash
Ok, makes sense.  I've logged myself when things got royally bad.

I haven't switched sides in years, but when I did it before it was during the time when either the rooks or knits (cant remember) were chronically getting pounded.  Like as in every day.  I switched over just to see what was going on.  One thing about it, you got a lot of 6 calls :D


I switched from bish to rook about six months ago because I got really frustrated at the teamwork I was seeing at the time (from the bish). It seemed to me that noone really cared to fight together to get anything accomplished.

But the biggest thing to slap me in the face when I started as a rook was the communication. It was a torrent of information, with "check 6" calls, con updates, enemy cv postings and just general banter between "room" players. These weren't something I was accustomed unless it was from my old squad. Now, everyone was talking, and it felt like something was happening.
[/hijack]

Offline Hammy

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« Reply #747 on: December 15, 2006, 06:24:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dantoo
Why do you persist in this?

People have voted with their feet.  Players will always do only that which they enjoy doing, no matter what obstacles you throw in their way.  What each individual seeks from the game will not change.  The game changes will not change the goals of the individual and players will always look to find the shortest path to achieve their personal goals.

Your changes have not enhanced enjoyment across the board by any stretch.  You are trying to force people to do things that they will not.  This alienates and frustrates your customers.  It is more profitable to retain a customer than to spend the money to gain a new one.

Leave it be.  Stop getting these stupid ideas for "necessary changes" from the BBS.  Spend time in the arenas if you want to see what people like and dislike.

If you had simply spent the time developing more and better maps and new interesting planes/gvs that you have on these ridiculous innovations you would be racing ahead.


I couldn't agree more Dantoo.

Face it fellas, you are all like fruit on the supermarket shelf.  You have a "shelf life" and like it or not, your "shelf life is coming to an end.

This game isn't being tailored to YOUR needs, its being done for the needs of the new batch of fruit that will be coming to sit on the shelf.

I was going to try make a comeback and see if I could enoy the game again, don't think I will bother just yet while all these changes are going on. :confused:

Offline CpMorgan

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« Reply #748 on: December 15, 2006, 07:47:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ZagaZig

 
  So here's a couple of possibilities for you to ponder, don't stop at 4 arenas, go to 8, group the early & mid war planes together as one and keep the latewar set. Make 4 map sets similar to AW in that you have big europe/little europe & big pacific & little pacific with early/late variations.


 
I personally see some merit to this idea. Historically, the AAF in Europe had their mission, with the Allied forces and Commanders focused on Fortress Europe, and the PAC had a totally different set of conditions with the Japanese Imperial Navy holding multiple fronts on all those individual islands and also their carriers that could potentially pop up anywhere. Also, there was the different tactics necessary to overcome the imbalance of forces in each campaign.

   In fact put into place a more "strategic" aspect, not just for us bomber types, but for the sake of clarity & realism.[/QUOTE]

This also has merit, as I'm sure you have already addressed with the Axis vs Allies arena. However, there are some players that really don't see the game in a purely "historical recreation" mindset. To hold to that idea of total historical recreation, you would have never seen a P-51 furballin with a P-38 and a Spit. Some feel that aspect would be too limiting in the game environment and thats a valid point.
 
    I know you don't need to lurk here & explaine yourself, kudos again for being a spot on developer & defending your positions, but may i suggest that you give full due to the long term squadrons here on Aces High who have helped foster your vision and have patronized your company for X ammount of years and possible ask for input from them.....maybe in a private way so as not to inflame the BB?[/QUOTE]

Also, a valid point. Perhaps entire squadrons would be open to moving to a LWA that was purely PAC based, for example, with the associated conditions that would be inherent there acceptable.(i.e. CV tactics, F6F, F4U, Zekes, Kates, ect.)

   I know that many squads here relocated from AW and some from WB's & some were started from the getgo in AH1, they do deserve your respect for their loyalty & player retention that goes on everyday we play here. Outside of my views & others like me, i can respect where they have been in the past & where & what they would like to see instituted in the future.

  I know that any directional path chosen is yours and your alone to make, but with say 10 different alternative directions to choose from, i would think that these long term members could help cut that down to say 3 outta 10 all of which would be acceptable & make the majority of folks happy in the long run, keeping retention high, bringing old members back & fostering a working relationship with newer membership that would garner respect for your company as "player friendly" upfront.

  To sum it up, if you fail, we all fail as players & no one wants that to happen, we love the game & want you win on your end, just our victory conditions differ.
[/QUOTE]

ZagaZig's points are all valid IMHO. I only highlited the ones I have been pondering myself. Now I'll sit back in my "flame retardent" underware and watch the Bar-B-Que :rofl

Offline darxe

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« Reply #749 on: December 15, 2006, 08:19:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ball
no, you have to be quiet with your criticism until you have given it a chance, or at least read the changes properly.



What sense does that make?  You can't have an opinion.  If this is the case there should be no positive feedback either.  Just post the changes and lock the forum.

Second this is a forum.  All PAYING members should have the right to post their opinion.